Ad also, what of conference mates recruiting cash?

Posted by gvsujulius on 4/12/2013 2:25:00 PM (view original):
What recruiting effort did you use on these recruits? Was it efficient or was it costing you a lot to do very little? There is more information that needs to be included. I know when I have lost a battle I have asked the other coach what he put in so I have a better understanding, they don't always tell you, but sometimes they will.

I've played for awhile, have read and studied the game a lot and know how to recruit. My only guess is the guy had an $80,000 bankroll lol.

I did the norm, CV's,etc.. even offered starting spots when I knew I had no chance.  I give the guy props, he did an excellent job. I put a little too much value in prestige which was my worst mistake.

Posted by a_in_the_b on 4/12/2013 2:29:00 PM (view original):
Ad also, what of conference mates recruiting cash?

Here is another one for you lol.

New guy in the conference. Has 7 open spots and ONLY considered by another guy I'm trying to get come signing time and he gets him.

Prestige means very little in terms of recruiting value at the D3 level because it is just so easy to move it up as conference wins are easy to come by in a mostly empty conference, make the NT and win a game or two.  At the D2 level, it means just slightly more and not until you get in D1 does it become a significant factor in recruiting.

$$$$ rule D3/D2 recruting (both # of open scholarships and bonus playoff cash) and prestige takes a back seat.

In my experience, the biggest impact of high prestige is in how soon you see dropdowns.  At A+, it's not unusual for me to see guys as D2 who would normally be D1 at a lower prestige.  That's right on Cycle 1.  By the signing deadline I typically get dropdown messages a cycle or two sooner than I would at lower prestige.  That's about the only and biggest advantage i can think of.

My D3 team fell on hard time last season - I held an A+ for 3 seasons, got a Sweet 16 in there, and then hit a couple of scarce recruiting years when the quality of player I was signing was not up to snuff.  Last season I suffered the consequences of my own over-enthusiasm and went 16-15.  My prestige fell from A+ to B+ in one fell swoop, all because I didn't recruit well.

I griped about getting sniped and about kids not considering me despite my A+.  I even pondered quitting out of frustration.  But in the end I learned some valuable lessons from my screw-ups and have a much better idea of how to play "recruiting poker" - when to go hard, when to wait, how to keep a cash reserve on hand, etc.  I'm not newbie either but I still learn a valuable lesson from every recruiting class if I look at it philosophically.  I can improve my abilities by applying those lessons and overcoming the adversity I've incurred for myself.

it is all about the Benjamins - follow the money......prestige matters somewhat but if you are both in range to be considered the money - and distance effects - will usually decide. 

At every level of HD, I have made my biggest mistakes when I thought I was in great recruiting position. 

My biggest was when I finally got to an A prestige place in DI and had a big pile of money.  I had something like five slots and I got three awesome players considering me.  I thought I had tons of money so I grabbed another really strong player who had been undecided.  They I started a battle with a less school that had a terrific player considering them.  A couple cycles later, I was being challenged on one, then two, then three of my guys.  Blood in the water.  I was overextended.  I struck out.

getting overconfident and greedy is a quick path to a recruiting strikeout at any level

Posted by vegask on 4/12/2013 2:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gvsujulius on 4/12/2013 2:25:00 PM (view original):
What recruiting effort did you use on these recruits? Was it efficient or was it costing you a lot to do very little? There is more information that needs to be included. I know when I have lost a battle I have asked the other coach what he put in so I have a better understanding, they don't always tell you, but sometimes they will.

I've played for awhile, have read and studied the game a lot and know how to recruit. My only guess is the guy had an $80,000 bankroll lol.

I did the norm, CV's,etc.. even offered starting spots when I knew I had no chance.  I give the guy props, he did an excellent job. I put a little too much value in prestige which was my worst mistake.

If he was less than a 100 miles away and your sending CV's that's your first problem.

I didn't mention this before, but I rarely consider prestige to mean much in my battles.

The biggest difference I've noticed when I've had a higher team prestige is that I can get better recruits to  be open to my efforts and/or drop to me.

If I'm battling someone I usually don't even worry about prestige if mine is better. I consider that I need to determine if the battle is worth fighting (and I listed some of the ways I do that before).

I've become fairly good at making that determination and haven't lost a battle I actually tried to fight in some time, and that one was a very close call with a conference  mate where later discussion revealed he had enough cash for exactly one more HV after I had nothing left, and that got him the recruit.

So if you can evaluate battle situations well, you can avoid the ones you  may  lose and cut your losses to find someone else BEFORE you lose the recruiting cash.

Posted by vegask on 4/12/2013 2:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by a_in_the_b on 4/12/2013 2:29:00 PM (view original):
Ad also, what of conference mates recruiting cash?

Here is another one for you lol.

New guy in the conference. Has 7 open spots and ONLY considered by another guy I'm trying to get come signing time and he gets him.

So let me get this straight. He had 7 spots and was only going after one guy? Are you really surprised he won then?

clearly, vegask is terrible at math or is lying about how he 'studied' the game. if he can't comprehend how the teams that beat him didn't need $80k to beat him, he's hopeless.

if he didn't quit out of frustration now, he'd obviously quit later. helping him is a waste of effort.

Posted by metsmax on 4/12/2013 2:48:00 PM (view original):
it is all about the Benjamins - follow the money......prestige matters somewhat but if you are both in range to be considered the money - and distance effects - will usually decide. 

At every level of HD, I have made my biggest mistakes when I thought I was in great recruiting position. 

My biggest was when I finally got to an A prestige place in DI and had a big pile of money.  I had something like five slots and I got three awesome players considering me.  I thought I had tons of money so I grabbed another really strong player who had been undecided.  They I started a battle with a less school that had a terrific player considering them.  A couple cycles later, I was being challenged on one, then two, then three of my guys.  Blood in the water.  I was overextended.  I struck out.

getting overconfident and greedy is a quick path to a recruiting strikeout at any level

amen to that

Posted by metsmax on 4/12/2013 2:48:00 PM (view original):
it is all about the Benjamins - follow the money......prestige matters somewhat but if you are both in range to be considered the money - and distance effects - will usually decide. 

At every level of HD, I have made my biggest mistakes when I thought I was in great recruiting position. 

My biggest was when I finally got to an A prestige place in DI and had a big pile of money.  I had something like five slots and I got three awesome players considering me.  I thought I had tons of money so I grabbed another really strong player who had been undecided.  They I started a battle with a less school that had a terrific player considering them.  A couple cycles later, I was being challenged on one, then two, then three of my guys.  Blood in the water.  I was overextended.  I struck out.

getting overconfident and greedy is a quick path to a recruiting strikeout at any level

+1

I learned this the hard way. I had a couple seasons where I'd get the guy I wanted early and decide to test the waters and look for more guys. Next thing I know, someone jumps on my guy in the last few cycles and Im out of money to battle.

Posted by jetwildcat on 4/12/2013 3:16:00 PM (view original):
clearly, vegask is terrible at math or is lying about how he 'studied' the game. if he can't comprehend how the teams that beat him didn't need $80k to beat him, he's hopeless.

if he didn't quit out of frustration now, he'd obviously quit later. helping him is a waste of effort.

This is getting an upvote.

Posted by rogelio on 4/12/2013 12:28:00 PM (view original):
Don't quit the whole game over that vegask.   If you've got a skosh of your budget left, then you may be able to sign a couple players that can help keep the team competitive this season.  All you need is about 8 to run at slowdown for the season and keep your chances at getting into the NT.  Even if you can't do that, just move your credits to a different world, set up the team the best way you can and try to experiment with it.

Otherwise, you're right.  Prestige isn't much of a factor at DIII.  It doesn't become much of a recruiting advantage until you get to DI, it only changes the rate at which players drop down.  At DIII, if a player is recruitable at all, then it isn't that big a deal whether one team has an A+ and the other a C-.   It comes down to available cash and effective use of the recruiting budget.

This isn't true, high prestige in D3 is a HUGE advantage.  Not necessarily because you have an advantage in a battle, but because it gives you access to much better players.  Not only sooner, but some elite guys will only talk to high prestige D3 schools and won't talk to other D3 schools.  Hell, I've had an A+ and didn't have a guy talk to me and another A+ school snagged him (they were coming off a title, so they had a very high A+, not within 70 miles if I recall correctly).  

Posted by tkimble on 4/12/2013 3:40:00 PM (view original):

Posted by rogelio on 4/12/2013 12:28:00 PM (view original):
Don't quit the whole game over that vegask.   If you've got a skosh of your budget left, then you may be able to sign a couple players that can help keep the team competitive this season.  All you need is about 8 to run at slowdown for the season and keep your chances at getting into the NT.  Even if you can't do that, just move your credits to a different world, set up the team the best way you can and try to experiment with it.

Otherwise, you're right.  Prestige isn't much of a factor at DIII.  It doesn't become much of a recruiting advantage until you get to DI, it only changes the rate at which players drop down.  At DIII, if a player is recruitable at all, then it isn't that big a deal whether one team has an A+ and the other a C-.   It comes down to available cash and effective use of the recruiting budget.

This isn't true, high prestige in D3 is a HUGE advantage.  Not necessarily because you have an advantage in a battle, but because it gives you access to much better players.  Not only sooner, but some elite guys will only talk to high prestige D3 schools and won't talk to other D3 schools.  Hell, I've had an A+ and didn't have a guy talk to me and another A+ school snagged him (they were coming off a title, so they had a very high A+, not within 70 miles if I recall correctly).  

This is definitely a point worth making. Although last season in Knight I pulled down a guy with C+ prestige and my A+ conference mate got the "in your dreams!" message. Still haven't wrapped my mind around that one.