Split athleticism up? Topic

bhansalid00
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Right now, ATH is an incredibly important rating, and part of the reason for that is that it means multiple things at once (strength, leaping ability, coordination, etc.) What do you think of the idea of splitting the ATH rating into two separate ratings? Maybe call them Strength and Leaping (or Coordination, or something else). The point is that some guys are physically strong, and that would make them better in the low post on both offense and defense, but they may not be great leapers (think Zach Randolph) or have great coordination. Other guys can jump out of the gym, but might be relatively weak for their position (Corey Brewer comes to mind). Splitting the rating up might introduce more diverse player types, and give you more control over how you use guys on both offense and defense. It would also reduce the current overall importance of the single ATH rating, which I think is a good thing.

I understand this would be a big change to the game - it affects both recruiting and game play - but I'm curious what other pros / cons it might have.

5/21/2014 4:17 PM
rednu
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What would it do with overall practice minutes? If you're adding a category, that's spreading development minutes thin. I would think there'd have to be an increase of a few minutes or the abolishment of a category (goodbye durability?) to make it work.

5/21/2014 4:28 PM
bhansalid00
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Posted by rednu on 5/21/2014 4:28:00 PM (view original):

What would it do with overall practice minutes? If you're adding a category, that's spreading development minutes thin. I would think there'd have to be an increase of a few minutes or the abolishment of a category (goodbye durability?) to make it work.

Yeah, I'd say increase total practice mins by 10 or maybe 15. And I am 1000% in favor of abolishing durability, with or without a change to ATH. But yes, doing both things together would mean you don't have to change the total number of ratings, which would keep the UI more consistent.
5/21/2014 4:39 PM
bagger288
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I think durability as a stat should still exists but maybe instead of increasing it through practice minutes it can be increased through other stats when athleticism is split up.

For example say we split ATH into
Strength (Vertical strength, low post strength, rebounding strength) overall ability to move people under the basket
and
Agility (Movement around the court, could also dictate how they are effected by double teams and Fullcourt press, also impacts in traffic layups and getting around picks)

With good strength+agility+Stamina a players durabilty would naturally increase because he is overall a very well put together player. In another example if the player is say a C, strength would impact durablity more than agility since it matters a tad more. You could also see durability come into play if that same center is being run in a fastbreak offense and running up and down the court causes this low agility player to pull a hamstring.

Thoughts?
5/21/2014 4:49 PM
mullycj
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An unecessary addition with no material benefit
5/21/2014 4:50 PM
baseballer77
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Posted by mullycj on 5/21/2014 4:50:00 PM (view original):
An unecessary addition with no material benefit
+1

If you're going to split anything up, I'd go ahead and split Defense into post/perimeter ratings.
5/21/2014 6:58 PM
bhansalid00
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Posted by baseballer77 on 5/21/2014 6:58:00 PM (view original):
Posted by mullycj on 5/21/2014 4:50:00 PM (view original):
An unecessary addition with no material benefit
+1

If you're going to split anything up, I'd go ahead and split Defense into post/perimeter ratings.
I'm not totally opposed to your idea, but splitting up ATH would accomplish the same thing - guys with strength would be better post defenders than guys who lack strength. But the difference is splitting up ATH would also accomplish that on offense - you'd need more strength to score inside than from mid-range or 3PT.
5/21/2014 7:07 PM
wildcat98
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I actually like BOTH ideas a lot. Splitting both ATH and DEF into two separate categories would make player development a more intricate and interesting process.
5/21/2014 8:02 PM
stewdog
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No. Don't complicate things any more...
5/21/2014 10:52 PM
wildcat98
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Posted by stewdog on 5/21/2014 10:52:00 PM (view original):
No. Don't complicate things any more...
That wouldn't complicate anything. It would just give a couple more options.
5/21/2014 11:00 PM
mamxet
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many easier things to do that would improve the game before considering something like this which is rather complex to do AND has large unforeseen consequences potential
5/21/2014 11:26 PM
dahsdebater
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With good strength+agility+Stamina a players durabilty would naturally increase because he is overall a very well put together player. In another example if the player is say a C, strength would impact durablity more than agility since it matters a tad more. You could also see durability come into play if that same center is being run in a fastbreak offense and running up and down the court causes this low agility player to pull a hamstring.
Greg Oden begs to differ....

And Ralph Sampson...

And Bill Walton...

In fact, there are any number of tall but "agile" centers in basketball history who had no problem staying on the court when healthy but struggled with injuries.  Of course there are some guards who fit the mold as well - Dwayne Wade comes to mind as a guy who is fairly strong for his position, certainly has great agility, and never had problems getting his minutes until injuries started to pile up - but it's the tall guys who really demonstrate not only exceptions but a trend of durability issues which actually, if anything, go hand in hand with what you are referring to as agility.  A lot of high leaping and sharp cuts only add to the natural wear and tear running alone puts on your knees at that physical size.
5/21/2014 11:37 PM
bhansalid00
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To me, in terms of strategy, splitting up ATH is no different than the fact that we have LP and PER instead of just "scoring". I'm sure it's a more complex change programatically, but that by itself isn't a reason to not at least consider it.
5/22/2014 12:28 AM
Split athleticism up? Topic
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