My C prestige school cannot out recruit a C prestige sim school?  Granted Sim school is in SC and I am NY for a NC recruit, but shouldn't I be able to get him?

Same division?  Sure, you'll get him if you have the money to put in more effort than the SIM coach puts in.  That holds true whether you're recruiting versus a human or a SIMAI.

ive spent a good bit with multiple hv and still not even considered by him.  do i keep sending hv?

he is a d2 pg and my school and sim school are both d2

General consensus is that over 250-300 miles or so, campus visits are a better value than home visits.

hes rejected both campus visit.  the first after was after 2 hv and the 2nd he rejected came after 1 more so 3 total hv and still didnt accept cv.

which is wierd because generally if i get rejected by someone i send 1/2 hv and if that does give me the lead they accpet the next cv and generally puts me on top.

How many openings does the Sim have? My understanding is that Sim teams assign a percentage of their overall cash pool to each recruits targeted. If the Sim in question has 5-6 openings and that player happens to be the Sim's No. 1 target (which is a totally random determination), then you could be looking at an insanely steep bill to get on the consideration list. WOTS should tell you the relative effort Sim has placed on the kid. 

it must be because now he is rejecting my home visits.... 

the sim has 5 openijgs and considered by 3 total players.

im pretty sure im goong to lose this guy to a sim, the omly other option i could see is doing the pulldown method to ofrce him to like me but ive already spent enough and it would cost to much to do that.

can't believe im going to lose out to a C- sim program.

would not having fss in his state affect my ability to recruit him?

You are not going to get considered by sending a few HV's or CV's. They will all be rejected. The only way your going to get considered is by sending SV's first. It's  normally going to take 10-15 SV to get considered. Then you can use HV &/or CV  if needed to kick the SIM off.

I doubt you are going to win this recruit. I have had similar problems and it killed my recruiting efforts. A SIM AI outbid everything I did sometimes. Even if you get him on campus, I say you are going to lose. I normally stop when the recruit is still being uninterested after a home visit. I know I am done when it happens. I learned.

Posted by coachvegas44 on 10/13/2014 8:22:00 PM (view original):
You are not going to get considered by sending a few HV's or CV's. They will all be rejected. The only way your going to get considered is by sending SV's first. It's  normally going to take 10-15 SV to get considered. Then you can use HV &/or CV  if needed to kick the SIM off.

why do i need to do the pulldown method?  he is a D2 guard and I am a D2 school, literally every recruit I have ever gotten at D2 has been using 2 hv+scholly or cv+scholly.

Or are you talking about after how he has rejected them i can only get him now through scouting trips

Posted by the0nlyis on 10/13/2014 8:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by coachvegas44 on 10/13/2014 8:22:00 PM (view original):
You are not going to get considered by sending a few HV's or CV's. They will all be rejected. The only way your going to get considered is by sending SV's first. It's  normally going to take 10-15 SV to get considered. Then you can use HV &/or CV  if needed to kick the SIM off.

why do i need to do the pulldown method?  he is a D2 guard and I am a D2 school, literally every recruit I have ever gotten at D2 has been using 2 hv+scholly or cv+scholly.

Or are you talking about after how he has rejected them i can only get him now through scouting trips

no, dont use SVs. there is a % chance your HVs and CVs will be rejected, and that is higher when another school is considered and you are not. you are just hitting a string of bad luck. send extras to make up for the ones that will get rejected.

that said, why are you recruiting a guy without knowing his potential? that seems a little crazy to me. you want to know the WOTS so you get an idea of the level of effort to beat the sim, too. you can always beat sims for local players but you can't always beat sims for non-local players. you should check the WOTS first for non-local sims pretty much always, unless you are a recruiting expert. but even more than that, why are you willing to fight for the guy without knowing his potential! 

You have to get him to talk to you. As long as the SIM controls him, he's not going  to talk to you. Therefore you must build recruiting effort. Rejections are 0 recruiting effort. It has been my experience in HD that it is much more expensive and requires much more effort to knock off a SIM than a human coach. I have never done it successfully in any other way than SV's first to get considered then knocked him off with HV/CV.

Posted by coachvegas44 on 10/13/2014 9:06:00 PM (view original):
You have to get him to talk to you. As long as the SIM controls him, he's not going  to talk to you. Therefore you must build recruiting effort. Rejections are 0 recruiting effort. It has been my experience in HD that it is much more expensive and requires much more effort to knock off a SIM than a human coach. I have never done it successfully in any other way than SV's first to get considered then knocked him off with HV/CV.

this is true for a pulldown, but not for a player showing in your divisional search. the fact that the guy already accepted an HV proves that the bigger visits will work (i think he said they were already accepted... at least a couple, anyway). i have never knocked sims off with SVs, only with HV/CV and back in the day, with calls/letters. so i am 100% sure you can do that - but if the guy is a dropdown/pulldown, you will have to do SVs first.

also, as for the amount of effort it takes to knock off a sim vs a human, most folks consider sims easier - that is, however, generally for local recruits who are not their #1 target. for sims, their #1 target is a lot harder to knock off than the rest of their guys. the generally rule of thumb is, its easier to beat a non-battling human than a sim, but far easier to beat a sim than a battling human. 

Posted by gillispie1 on 10/13/2014 9:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by the0nlyis on 10/13/2014 8:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by coachvegas44 on 10/13/2014 8:22:00 PM (view original):
You are not going to get considered by sending a few HV's or CV's. They will all be rejected. The only way your going to get considered is by sending SV's first. It's  normally going to take 10-15 SV to get considered. Then you can use HV &/or CV  if needed to kick the SIM off.

why do i need to do the pulldown method?  he is a D2 guard and I am a D2 school, literally every recruit I have ever gotten at D2 has been using 2 hv+scholly or cv+scholly.

Or are you talking about after how he has rejected them i can only get him now through scouting trips

no, dont use SVs. there is a % chance your HVs and CVs will be rejected, and that is higher when another school is considered and you are not. you are just hitting a string of bad luck. send extras to make up for the ones that will get rejected.

that said, why are you recruiting a guy without knowing his potential? that seems a little crazy to me. you want to know the WOTS so you get an idea of the level of effort to beat the sim, too. you can always beat sims for local players but you can't always beat sims for non-local players. you should check the WOTS first for non-local sims pretty much always, unless you are a recruiting expert. but even more than that, why are you willing to fight for the guy without knowing his potential! 

I do know his potential with my leftover recruiting money for last season I used it and to ffs that state instead of taking the 25% carryover, but i moved schools so  I don't have ffs on him anymore.

So if i was to keep recruiting him do I just keep sending hv/cv per chance they do get accepted since if they don't I don't loose money?  Or should I do something like the 40/40 phonecall/letters to gain points.

At this point though I've spent a good amount on him and I generally do not like to exceed a certain portion of my budget on one person and have a certain amount left for emergency.  So ill probably send one more cycle and if he doesn't accept them give up on him.

and if this helps so far he has:

accepted 4 home visits, ~10 calls, ~20 letters ~a coach call, rejecting 2 cv and 2 hv, denying starting spot sent with first 2 accepted hv, and 15 min guarenteed with the first round of declined hv.

yet i have not beat the sim out or even begun to be considered by him,not knowing ffs i'd guess wots is very *solid* or sim is tight with him, another reason my advances haven't been working.

Couple points.  I always wait for the WOTS to come out before pursuing a kid the sim is on (or FSS that state so I know how high or low of a priority that kid is for the sim school).  Regarding getting HV/CV to get accepted, there are a couple of things you can do.  I would recommend sending HV 1 at a time, and send like 5-8 in one cycle.  He'll only reject 1 or 2 of them that way and the other 6 or 7 will go through.  The kid is also less likely to reject HVs if you send a single letter or ST with a group of, say, 5 HV all at once.  Recruits cannot reject letter or ST, so accepting one of those makes them more likely accept the HV (if you send them all at the same time).  Unfortunately since he is rejecting some of your early effort, I'm guessing it's a fairly strong WOTS and if that's the case, you'll need a bunch of cash to wrestle him away from the sim.

Don't get hung up on prestige.  At D2 and D3, it means very little when it comes to battling.