I'm expecting to have a very high IQ team with a couple jr/sr already at A+ off/def IQ and should expect most if not all my sr to be A+ at seasons end with maybe more jrs reaching that too.

just wondering how much an advantage that posses say to a team of A/A- IQ?

I have experienced coaching teams with bad IQ (Pace in Phelan) where all B-/B due to fr/so and new offense where it kills you

obviously i know the higher the IQ the better, just wondering how much of an effect it would be if teams are similar in talent.

Besft guess is that an A+ IQ compared to a B- IQ is probably worth about 10-15 points in core ratings.<br />
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Posted by Trentonjoe on 12/5/2014 1:19:00 PM (view original):
Besft guess is that an A+ IQ compared to a B- IQ is probably worth about 10-15 points in core ratings.<br />
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My opinion is just about on par with that.

Trenton, When you say core abilites, what are you referring at, are you talking core defense and core lp, pe and passing offensively?

Defensively it's hard for me to tell, but offensively I think it's a pretty big difference.
I think those would be the attributes it helps.

Core's differ per position.....they are basically the 4 or so most important rating per role......for example for a PG I think of SPD, BH and PASS are core.......for a perimeter scorer I think SPD/PER/BH........I consider ATH and DEF core for all positions as well.

interesting topic..

tj,...
could you clarify?

for instance:

A+  60sp 70per  70bh
 would be equal to what ratings with a B- IQ in offense?

i think you mean that those 10-15 points would be spread across the core ratings so the answer would be something like
B-  64sp 74per 74bh    or thereabouts

right?
i think i could buy that.
i might even think its even a little more than that.

but if you mean 10-15 points in each  attirbute... that seems too high.   but maybe it is that high,, ive never really studied it

I realize we are not talking about some exact formula,  but tj seems to have some educated thoughts on this and i just want to clarify if my thinking is in the same ballpark.

just curious while were on the subject...

what are the best guesses as to the mechanics of how IQ enters into the gameplay engine?

i guess i would assume each players attributes gets multiplied by some factor  according to thier IQ  
(for instance, maybe A+ is 1.10,  B- is 1.00,  F is .85  etc)  
but how do you deal with offensive IQ and defensive IQ when they are different?

maybe when you are on offense, all your attributes are multiplied by the factor assigned to the offensive IQ and same when you are on defense?

thoughts?

more questions:

assuming it works something like i described above:
would we assume that IQ has no effect on FT or STamina?    thats probably an easy answer for someone who has looked at the issue at all.  
my best guess is that IQ does not ever effect FT ST DU or WE.

Posted by oldave on 12/9/2014 12:07:00 PM (view original):
interesting topic..

tj,...
could you clarify?

for instance:

A+  60sp 70per  70bh
 would be equal to what ratings with a B- IQ in offense?

i think you mean that those 10-15 points would be spread across the core ratings so the answer would be something like
B-  64sp 74per 74bh    or thereabouts

right?
i think i could buy that.
i might even think its even a little more than that.

but if you mean 10-15 points in each  attirbute... that seems too high.   but maybe it is that high,, ive never really studied it

I realize we are not talking about some exact formula,  but tj seems to have some educated thoughts on this and i just want to clarify if my thinking is in the same ballpark.

I'm curious to know why a player's IQ would make them faster?  Maybe you could use that speed more effectively with a high IQ?  It seems like IQ and ratings are 2 totally different things. Maybe using shooting percentage would be a better example? For instance if Player A shoots 43% with an IQ of B, he may shoot 45% with an IQ of A.

Another question about IQs. I know it takes more practice time to improve as players get closer to an A+ rating. Is there also more benefit out of those late improvements or is the improvement the same? Does a player proportionately have the same benefit in going from a C IQ to a B IQ as he does in going from a B IQ to an A IQ or is there a higher level of benefit the closer he gets to an A+ IQ rating? 

Posted by affvid on 12/9/2014 1:54:00 PM (view original):
Another question about IQs. I know it takes more practice time to improve as players get closer to an A+ rating. Is there also more benefit out of those late improvements or is the improvement the same? Does a player proportionately have the same benefit in going from a C IQ to a B IQ as he does in going from a B IQ to an A IQ or is there a higher level of benefit the closer he gets to an A+ IQ rating? 

My understanding is that there is a bigger difference from A to B, than there would be from B to C, but could be wrong on that.

Posted by thewizard17 on 12/9/2014 2:00:00 PM (view original):

Posted by oldave on 12/9/2014 12:07:00 PM (view original):
interesting topic..

tj,...
could you clarify?

for instance:

A+  60sp 70per  70bh
 would be equal to what ratings with a B- IQ in offense?

i think you mean that those 10-15 points would be spread across the core ratings so the answer would be something like
B-  64sp 74per 74bh    or thereabouts

right?
i think i could buy that.
i might even think its even a little more than that.

but if you mean 10-15 points in each  attirbute... that seems too high.   but maybe it is that high,, ive never really studied it

I realize we are not talking about some exact formula,  but tj seems to have some educated thoughts on this and i just want to clarify if my thinking is in the same ballpark.

I'm curious to know why a player's IQ would make them faster?  Maybe you could use that speed more effectively with a high IQ?  It seems like IQ and ratings are 2 totally different things. Maybe using shooting percentage would be a better example? For instance if Player A shoots 43% with an IQ of B, he may shoot 45% with an IQ of A.

I think I agree with this, logically.  Why would knowing an offense make you faster or be able to dribble better?  I think it is about "reading" an offense and/or defense and being able to put yourself in better position to succeed.

true enough, guys..
but at the bottom of all these numbers i assume that there is a an "engine"  which uses a series of formulas to determine the outcome of each play.
we know that IQ is used in there somehow... but how?

i agree that taken by itself, it makes no sense for IQ to affect speed....and heck... maybe it doesnt.   but most seem to agree that when the engine decides whether a player makes or misses a shot.. SP and other attributes are very important,   in other words, at that point SP is not just "speed", but one of the factors that affects whether a shot is made or not.  

i supppose you could let IQ affect only LP and PE( and bh?) for plays on which the player is shooting...   BH and PA for plays where he doesnt shoot... DE and SB for when he is on defense..  RE for when there is a rebound... which does make more sense intuitivily,  .. i never really considered it that way but i guess that could be it.   the significance of that would be that young low IQ players who are of the type that rely more on ath and sp,  would not be hurt as much by low IQ.


hmmmmmm.....................

The reality is that everything in all the engines on this site is performed through percentages married to an RNG, so yes, thinking of it terms of FG%, or 3%, or TO%, or the percentage of time a shot is a 2 or a 3, or the % of times a shooter is fouled, etc., is more truthful to the inner workings of the engine than trying to estimate what a player's relative rating equivalents might be as IQ changes.  That said, as coaches, typically we're trying to make lineup decisions between players, so it's still useful to be able to spitball what the relative "ratings value" of IQ is to make quick and correct depth chart and distribution choices.