I was thinking the other day..it seems the fastbreak has a bad rep throughout HD . Has any coach won a d1 national title using a fastbreak before. Curious as I just lost in the championship game using one trying to debunk the myth that it is not a successful offense .

Haha hey I like that nobody tries it. Harder to know what to do against me lol

Fastbreak in name and in theory, looks sexy, I just don't think it plays very well in the game.  It is by far the worst of the offenses, and this is coming from a guy that's used them all with at least some regularity.  I feel like I would second bathtubhippo's sentiment here.

Posted by crzyballplay on 4/29/2015 9:15:00 AM (view original):
I was thinking the other day..it seems the fastbreak has a bad rep throughout HD . Has any coach won a d1 national title using a fastbreak before. Curious as I just lost in the championship game using one trying to debunk the myth that it is not a successful offense .

many championships have been won with fastbreak, very possibly just as many, as a % of total fastbreak seasons played, as any other set, when you look at real programs, not just new people learning and fumbling through it.

fastbreak is certainly a great set in this game. the problem is, the other 3 offenses are very, very similar, and fastbreak is about as different from those as the defenses are. people are not used to this, fail to leverage the strengths, and minimize the weaknesses, and so it does not work very well.

if you are a new coach, you should really avoid FB like the plague. you simply need to play copycat too much to be playing the one offense that is really different than what everyone else is doing. i would say its very possible FB is the best offense in the game. in terms of the 3pt% you can put up, its as good as flex. in terms of the fouls you can draw, its as good as motion, if not better. in terms of the flexibility of distro you can set, its at least as good as triangle or flex, if not better. in terms of being able to succeed offensively with non-traditional players, its easily the best set of any. in terms of increasing possessions (which decreases volatility, which is great for the better team, bad for the worse one), its the only offense that makes any difference. for a great team not running press, at any level, its perfectly reasonable to argue FB is the best set in the game. running press with fb is its complete own animal, it may be the best combo in the game, but again i definitely would not recommend that for new coaches. that isn't just new coaches to the game, but new coaches to d1 as well, as that is effectively a new game of its own (with recruiting being so vastly different). 

the downsides of FB? one, you can't copy cat so well. two, the increase in possessions predictably comes with a fatigue hit. three, you pay about 1, 1 and a half turnovers per game to compensate for all the other offensive efficiency bonuses. and four, you can't run slowdown.

how those all translate into how to play your team can be fairly nuanced, but that should give you the info you need to make a decision. ill try to check back if you have any questions. in short, if you are new to d1, stay away. if not, and you are up for something new, go for it. most coaches don't like it, but to be frank, its because most of them don't know how to play it right. i was the same way - the first set i ever played was FB - and i hated it, passionately. it was only years later when i was bored with everything else that i tried it, and i truly enjoy it. you really may want to hold off until you feel you have really gotten the hang of the rest of the game, before taking it on, but those who do take it on, and really put in the effort to get the hang of it, tend to like it quite a bit.

depending on what level we are talking about with the OP, I lost the D3 title game in Allen one season running fastbreak/zone, so it certainly can be a good set. I really like it in D3 where everyone has some weaknesses somewhere anyway...

I'm in Allen d1 Penn st. Just lost in nt championship game so not a new coach lol. Most of your points I agree with about the fb. Just wasn't sure if anyone had actually won a nt in d1 with it since hear it hated by 95% of people and almost got removed from the game.the fb is easy once u get a few seasons u can adjust your team to play exactly like you want to.

Posted by crzyballplay on 4/30/2015 11:06:00 AM (view original):
I'm in Allen d1 Penn st. Just lost in nt championship game so not a new coach lol. Most of your points I agree with about the fb. Just wasn't sure if anyone had actually won a nt in d1 with it since hear it hated by 95% of people and almost got removed from the game.the fb is easy once u get a few seasons u can adjust your team to play exactly like you want to.

it can definitely work. i was sort of into the game when i switched all my teams to fb, which is to say a lot more than when i was a zombie but still not close to where i used to be.

i had played fb at my first school ever, hated it, then once at a random mid major i picked up for fb/zone just for the hell of it (those were always the two sets i didn't take to naturally). that went well so fast forward to like 5 years into my career, in a sudden surge of enthusiasm to do something for a change, i switched all of my teams to fastbreak, which i guess was just mostly my d1 and d2 tark teams, although i think i was half assed trying to get to high d1 somewhere else. the d1 team was south carolina, started at b- in a weak sec/strong acc situation. they were up to an a- when i switched to fb, so that set me back. but my first season with full FB iq (so 4 seasons out or whatever from the start of the switch), our next two seasons were runner up (1 pt loss after leading all game in a game we should win! but at least it was against a fine coach in emy) and champion. all while new to FB and on A- players in a ****** regional setup. at d2 same time it was back to back #1 overall seeds but the NT just didn't go my way. i only stayed at those school for 3 more seasons before i quit the game for a while, but my best team by far came in those 3 seasons and as things normally go, it didn't pan out (rarely does the best team win). anyway i guess that quickness of success and the less than ideal circumstances left me no reason to doubt it could be carried on.

if you asked me the best championship offense in d1, since early into my d1 career, i would have said motion, definitely motion. but now, its motion or fb. they are both awesome, love both of them. this is only in the championship sense, what makes sense in the other parts of d1 is often different (something people should remember before setting all their mid majors to motion/man! may as well do something different so you aren't going head to head with the big boys).

just took over a FB team.    recruiting begins soon.   Is speed important in C/PF when you play the fastbreak?   seems like it would be.

Thinking about FB as a new challenge.  Does anyone recall a thread with good tips on FB from someone who knows what he is talking about?

Gil - you ever written down your musings on the zen of FB?

I'm switching my newly acquired D1(ASU) team over to FB/Zone.....Just signed back on and have been going back in forth on which offense/defense to switch over too. I love the challenge of this combo have been reading everything gillispie1 has written about it. He's the MAN! ASU was 3-24 the previous season so I had nothing to lose by changing. I'm enjoying breaking down FB and Zone teams and box scores. A lot more interesting than motion/man. 

Posted by deroches on 4/30/2015 4:10:00 PM (view original):
just took over a FB team.    recruiting begins soon.   Is speed important in C/PF when you play the fastbreak?   seems like it would be.

its important but not as much as your guards, anything 30-40 speed is doable wouldnt go much under unless hes a stud at everything else.

ya gill i thought we was both in tark together im at iowa lol

If anyone is looking at running fastbreak I'd recomend looking at the following coaches and how they have been successful with 2 different methods:

anavrin and mfnmeyers

They both have great success running the fb/fcp combo at D3, however both run different styles guard wise.

With anavrins teams you see extreme emphasis on spd/per/bh/pas.  allowing him to get away with lower ath/def ratings, as his high spd in the press causes a lot of turnovers and on offense they are extremely capable of not turning the ball over and creating good shots with great passing to good shooters.

With mfnmeyers teams you see extreme emphasis on ath/def foregoing bh/pas and relying on elite advantages in ath to score on you as well as causing so many to's to limit the amount they turn the ball over.

Big man wise looking at their teams its hard to decipher any different tactics from the standard ath/reb/def centers, anavrin does posses more speedy centers than mfnmeyers.