What the **** is everyone talking about a hidden gem.

"Oh yea just make more hidden gems for mid-majors to grab"

Seriously what the **** is a hidden gem recruit?

Someone with ****** cores by all blue and a high WE?

Those already exist.

And what are good coaches suddenly forgot about potential, and not take those high WE all blue guys?

I think we are referring to ADDING The scouting changes where you can't find high potential players PLUS ADDING MORE mid level good potential players. There aren't too many around that could be all americans by their senior year in D1.

Posted by the0nlyis on 9/18/2015 2:59:00 PM (view original):
What the **** is everyone talking about a hidden gem.

"Oh yea just make more hidden gems for mid-majors to grab"

Seriously what the **** is a hidden gem recruit?

Someone with ****** cores by all blue and a high WE?

Those already exist.

And what are good coaches suddenly forgot about potential, and not take those high WE all blue guys?

yeah... but ones good enough to compete at a high level when they grow up, aka, with quality BCS squads. those are very rare. they do exist, but very rare... more you get the guys who are dog **** for 2 years, then get into backup quality for junior/senior year. the rare guy gets to starter quality, but its the exception, not the rule.

Posted by stewdog on 9/18/2015 3:00:00 PM (view original):
I think we are referring to ADDING The scouting changes where you can't find high potential players PLUS ADDING MORE mid level good potential players. There aren't too many around that could be all americans by their senior year in D1.

Thats the part I don't get how aren't the top level schools going to be finding those high potential guys?  Yes we are limiting their scouting abilities?  Maybe because they see the lower starting ratings they dont continue to scout them whereas the lower schools scout them and find out they are actually really good?

And adding more isn't that a recruit generation thing(which I am very very positively for)

Posted by the0nlyis on 9/18/2015 3:08:00 PM (view original):

Posted by stewdog on 9/18/2015 3:00:00 PM (view original):
I think we are referring to ADDING The scouting changes where you can't find high potential players PLUS ADDING MORE mid level good potential players. There aren't too many around that could be all americans by their senior year in D1.

Thats the part I don't get how aren't the top level schools going to be finding those high potential guys?  Yes we are limiting their scouting abilities?  Maybe because they see the lower starting ratings they dont continue to scout them whereas the lower schools scout them and find out they are actually really good?

And adding more isn't that a recruit generation thing(which I am very very positively for)

If there are more of them, the top level schools won't be able to gobble them all up

Posted by tarvolon on 9/18/2015 3:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by the0nlyis on 9/18/2015 3:08:00 PM (view original):

Posted by stewdog on 9/18/2015 3:00:00 PM (view original):
I think we are referring to ADDING The scouting changes where you can't find high potential players PLUS ADDING MORE mid level good potential players. There aren't too many around that could be all americans by their senior year in D1.

Thats the part I don't get how aren't the top level schools going to be finding those high potential guys?  Yes we are limiting their scouting abilities?  Maybe because they see the lower starting ratings they dont continue to scout them whereas the lower schools scout them and find out they are actually really good?

And adding more isn't that a recruit generation thing(which I am very very positively for)

If there are more of them, the top level schools won't be able to gobble them all up

yeh but thats a recruit generation thing so it isn't being considered(unless I misread and this is something people are asking for when recruit generation is considered after the current updates)

Posted by the0nlyis on 9/18/2015 3:08:00 PM (view original):

Posted by stewdog on 9/18/2015 3:00:00 PM (view original):
I think we are referring to ADDING The scouting changes where you can't find high potential players PLUS ADDING MORE mid level good potential players. There aren't too many around that could be all americans by their senior year in D1.

Thats the part I don't get how aren't the top level schools going to be finding those high potential guys?  Yes we are limiting their scouting abilities?  Maybe because they see the lower starting ratings they dont continue to scout them whereas the lower schools scout them and find out they are actually really good?

And adding more isn't that a recruit generation thing(which I am very very positively for)

they find some now, but miss others. my most recent class on a d+ mid major, i signed a big with 95ish ath, reb, def, sb caps. he pales in comparison to the best big i had on my last d+ mid major program, we had a big i'd have loved to add to my a+ team that season who happened to win the championship that year. the mid major actually had 3 bigs of quality BCS caliber, lost in the elite 8 and very easily could have won that game. stuff can slip through, it does now, there's just not enough volume wise.

Posted by the0nlyis on 9/18/2015 3:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tarvolon on 9/18/2015 3:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by the0nlyis on 9/18/2015 3:08:00 PM (view original):

Posted by stewdog on 9/18/2015 3:00:00 PM (view original):
I think we are referring to ADDING The scouting changes where you can't find high potential players PLUS ADDING MORE mid level good potential players. There aren't too many around that could be all americans by their senior year in D1.

Thats the part I don't get how aren't the top level schools going to be finding those high potential guys?  Yes we are limiting their scouting abilities?  Maybe because they see the lower starting ratings they dont continue to scout them whereas the lower schools scout them and find out they are actually really good?

And adding more isn't that a recruit generation thing(which I am very very positively for)

If there are more of them, the top level schools won't be able to gobble them all up

yeh but thats a recruit generation thing so it isn't being considered(unless I misread and this is something people are asking for when recruit generation is considered after the current updates)

Yes, it's recruit generation. People are asking for it because they think recruit generation is a bigger problem than the ones being dealt with in this update

Posted by tarvolon on 9/18/2015 3:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by the0nlyis on 9/18/2015 3:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tarvolon on 9/18/2015 3:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by the0nlyis on 9/18/2015 3:08:00 PM (view original):

Posted by stewdog on 9/18/2015 3:00:00 PM (view original):
I think we are referring to ADDING The scouting changes where you can't find high potential players PLUS ADDING MORE mid level good potential players. There aren't too many around that could be all americans by their senior year in D1.

Thats the part I don't get how aren't the top level schools going to be finding those high potential guys?  Yes we are limiting their scouting abilities?  Maybe because they see the lower starting ratings they dont continue to scout them whereas the lower schools scout them and find out they are actually really good?

And adding more isn't that a recruit generation thing(which I am very very positively for)

If there are more of them, the top level schools won't be able to gobble them all up

yeh but thats a recruit generation thing so it isn't being considered(unless I misread and this is something people are asking for when recruit generation is considered after the current updates)

Yes, it's recruit generation. People are asking for it because they think recruit generation is a bigger problem than the ones being dealt with in this update

Okay I was a bit confused there, but that makes sense because I think I have stated multiple times that recruit generation is my #1/2 priority for changes.  I just didn't know since I was attempting not to go on a recruit generation speal(I mean seriously every freaking team is basically 95 ath/def starters at high D1, if you want the game to be more realistic you got to change the ratings)

I would think they'd be able to effectively produce more "hidden gems" with the scouting overhaul. You "hide" them by obscuring the potential for everyone who doesn't scout them well enough. If true, that could explain why recruit generation doesn't seem to be a priority to tweak, at least until beta testing has been done.

Posted by pkoopman on 9/18/2015 3:25:00 PM (view original):
I would think they'd be able to effectively produce more "hidden gems" with the scouting overhaul. You "hide" them by obscuring the potential for everyone who doesn't scout them well enough. If true, that could explain why recruit generation doesn't seem to be a priority to tweak, at least until beta testing has been done.

I think that is seble's idea. I am skeptical of it (I addressed this in my update analysis this afternoon, which I hope was somewhat helpful) 

Posted by tarvolon on 9/18/2015 3:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by the0nlyis on 9/18/2015 3:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tarvolon on 9/18/2015 3:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by the0nlyis on 9/18/2015 3:08:00 PM (view original):

Posted by stewdog on 9/18/2015 3:00:00 PM (view original):
I think we are referring to ADDING The scouting changes where you can't find high potential players PLUS ADDING MORE mid level good potential players. There aren't too many around that could be all americans by their senior year in D1.

Thats the part I don't get how aren't the top level schools going to be finding those high potential guys?  Yes we are limiting their scouting abilities?  Maybe because they see the lower starting ratings they dont continue to scout them whereas the lower schools scout them and find out they are actually really good?

And adding more isn't that a recruit generation thing(which I am very very positively for)

If there are more of them, the top level schools won't be able to gobble them all up

yeh but thats a recruit generation thing so it isn't being considered(unless I misread and this is something people are asking for when recruit generation is considered after the current updates)

Yes, it's recruit generation. People are asking for it because they think recruit generation is a bigger problem than the ones being dealt with in this update

It's a FAR bigger problem that what is being "fixed".  From what I've read so far, there seems to be a whole lot of instances of the word "hope" and it seems to be geared to almost exclusively what is a D1 problem.  It really looks deep down like change for the sake of change in an effort to try to justify the deafening silence we've being hearing in HD for the past year or so.  Far, FAR bigger issues that need looked at than this one.

Again, call me skeptical.

I mean honestly if they fixed recruit generation, post season cash, and a few minor recruiting logistics that covers pretty much what everything is attempting to fix.

You get the realism fix by having real *** players.  Not a team full of Magic Johnson's.

You get competition by limiting the number of elite players making them extremely valuable and therefore neccessary to have(as well as making top recruits national and distance less of factor)

You get some semblance of realistic balance by lowering(not eliminating) post season cash as well as not totally ******* D2/D3

You make coaching more important by having teams more balanced and less 99 players at everything so coaching is still very important.

Yeh the scouting changes are nice and the recruiting changes are nice, but at the most basic level what everything is trying to fix are those listed above which is done by 3 simple things(now you would need to test and find out the exact way to go about it, such as how many elite recruits, how much do we cut post season cash to make mid majors a bit better without having them joining the same playing field as the Big 6.)

Yes it is nice to make things fun and more entertaining but if the main goals are to make it more realistic and realistically balanced you can do it with just those 3 changes.  Then you can add in some stuff to continue to make it more realistic and fun.

Basically seble is avoiding changing what is actually causing the problems and attempting to cover them up by changin other things hoping they will indirectly fix the actual problems, but those changes are now starting to mess with things that don't necessarily need changing(at the moment) if the true goal for the current changes are fixing the first problems.

Yes I think Seble's idea for scouting and recruiting to an extent are very good(minus a few horrendous piles of crap), but they should not be a priority over what is actually causing the problems that are trying to be "fixed"