stewdog, you need to calm down.  npb may have misinterpreted your post, but you are going way too hard in the paint right now.  Great job at GT btw.




edited: to --> too

Div-1 conferences have a natural pecking order, based on prestige. Prestige provides a significant recruiting boost. The ACC has 7 teams with a base prestige of A- or better, and no team is worse than a B. Meanwhile, the Patriot has 12 teams with a base prestige of D.

Around 10 seasons ago, American U had an outstanding run, going 89-7 in conference (144-39 overall) over 6 years, with 4 CT titles and 2 NT wins. American's prestige never climbed above B- which is worse than every ACC team's baseline, plus they have 11 Patriot D prestige millstones pulling them back (SOS and RPI killers). And again, 7 ACC teams are a full letter grade higher than American's B- ceiling.

If ACC schools can't fend off a B- Patriot team just on prestige, RPI boost based on playing with other A prestige schools, etc., then you're doing something wrong. But that's just the beginning of the story, because whereas American may have 3 openings and no more than $60k, every ACC team gets what on average each year, $120k, $150k, $180, higher? So there is absolutely no way American U could possibly have won a recruiting battle with even the suckiest ACC team.

Does the average ACC team even "recruit"? No, they select. They back a dumptruck up to a recruit's house, and drop more cash on one guy than American has overall. Combined with de facto Big-6 conference collusion, there is little competition, meaning boatloads of holdover money is retained.

So a solution is to reduce the amount of generated 5-stars from 50 to 20? So power becomes even more concentrated with the top Big-6 schools.

Anyway, it's been accepted that American U cannot without some miracle advance to the Sweet 16. 324 schools in Div-1, and the final 16 teams come from only 72 possible schools. If any schools get on a great run like Hartford to the Final Four, then the Forums explode with indignation and go into freakout mode.

My interpretation of what Seble is looking to do is to make a less insane recruiting logic. Still prioritize Big-6 schools, but give Patriot or MAAC teams a fighting chance. Seriously... $60k vs $ 240k...

Now get off my lawn...!

If a coach wants to win a NC in HD then he should consider American a stepping stone to a team that can....you know...like in real life.

OR the coach should stay in DII/DIII.

I've seen small conferences full of quality coaches compete with the Big 6. The issue isn't as much game dynamics as it is POPULATION. So rather than try to FIX the problem through advertising, lets just change the game and make it so every team can win.

Posted by mullycj on 9/18/2015 9:00:00 AM (view original):
If a coach wants to win a NC in HD then he should consider American a stepping stone to a team that can....you know...like in real life.

OR the coach should stay in DII/DIII.

I've seen small conferences full of quality coaches compete with the Big 6. The issue isn't as much game dynamics as it is POPULATION. So rather than try to FIX the problem through advertising, lets just change the game and make it so every team can win.

This last paragraph is spot on.

what annoys me is that the level field exists, in 2 out of 3 divisions. d1 is popular mostly for its recruit gen, and the differences, at their core, stem from the fact that d1 has a hierarchy of both schools and recruits. cut out the heirarchy of d1 teams, and you have d2/d3. congrats. its not like there were enough d2/d3 worlds already...

What Mully, Emy, and Gil said..LOL.
The game needs some things fixed....(adjusted).
Not destroyed and completely redone.
There are several posts in other threads about how impossible it is to recruit a decent player from a mid major.
Rupp just drafted #1 overall a sophmore from Zaga.... one of the schools used in every example to somehow prove we are not like the real NCAA.

Maybe we need more Mark Fews, and less crying and we might be more like the real NCAA

I like the idea of just about everything suggested, except for not being able to pull down. I have no idea how I will recruit good players without pulldowns. Unless recruit generation is fixed, then there are damned few recruits I want to actually sign that I can immediately recruit.

So it's been pretty quiet since since, any chance of another dev chat or what else has been looked at and considered for the topics currently being presented in these updates(scouting/recruiting)

Posted by the0nlyis on 9/24/2015 5:39:00 PM (view original):
So it's been pretty quiet since since, any chance of another dev chat or what else has been looked at and considered for the topics currently being presented in these updates(scouting/recruiting)

don't hold your breath. i had asked him to come and answer some more, and he wouldn't, so i asked directly, and he said he didn't know. i think he has some thinking to do.

here's how i see it. right now, seble is seble the evangelist. hes on a mission, or as a friend of mine recently said, on a crusade. i totally agree. hes just not listening to the criticism about scope and danger at this point. but, we have one thing working for us - reality. i asked him directly - is there going to be ANY distance advantage? because as written it sounded like not. i also asked - how do you even know if a dropdown is a dropdown, if they even exist anymore? his response - "these are the kinds of detail we will flush out over time". details? those are pillars of the whole freaking game! so yeah... ok. i get it now. took me a while, but i get it now. hes in day dreamer land. hes spit balling. he has no ******* clue what to do about all the real issues and problems. but hes in evangelist mode, hes on a mission to make the game more fun and balanced and he will be damned before anyone stops him! us trying to beat him over the head about scope, will only cause him to go on the defensive, to dig in and hunker down, as has been proven over time to be a consistent psychological response in those in "evangelist mode" (not sure what the real term is).

so, i figure, let's just sit back. he has to confront those problems on his own, has to deal with those "details", which is undoubtedly the most illogical and insane usage of the word "details" i have ever encountered personally. time is on our side. let the "details" beat him up for a couple months. then he will be ready to talk. there is absolutely no chance he can take on all he is suggesting in the "few months" he is envisioning this update taking. let's just give it some time... and he will come back actually ready to compromise, because he will himself crave it, at that point. his update is functionally bigger than all other updates in the last 8 years, my entire tenure, COMBINED. thats the reality. i don't think he remotely gets that yet - but as you get to implementation - you can't skirt that reality, there is simply no way around it. 

Posted by gillispie1 on 9/24/2015 6:58:00 PM (view original):

Posted by the0nlyis on 9/24/2015 5:39:00 PM (view original):
So it's been pretty quiet since since, any chance of another dev chat or what else has been looked at and considered for the topics currently being presented in these updates(scouting/recruiting)

don't hold your breath. i had asked him to come and answer some more, and he wouldn't, so i asked directly, and he said he didn't know. i think he has some thinking to do.

here's how i see it. right now, seble is seble the evangelist. hes on a mission, or as a friend of mine recently said, on a crusade. i totally agree. hes just not listening to the criticism about scope and danger at this point. but, we have one thing working for us - reality. i asked him directly - is there going to be ANY distance advantage? because as written it sounded like not. i also asked - how do you even know if a dropdown is a dropdown, if they even exist anymore? his response - "these are the kinds of detail we will flush out over time". details? those are pillars of the whole freaking game! so yeah... ok. i get it now. took me a while, but i get it now. hes in day dreamer land. hes spit balling. he has no ******* clue what to do about all the real issues and problems. but hes in evangelist mode, hes on a mission to make the game more fun and balanced and he will be damned before anyone stops him! us trying to beat him over the head about scope, will only cause him to go on the defensive, to dig in and hunker down, as has been proven over time to be a consistent psychological response in those in "evangelist mode" (not sure what the real term is).

so, i figure, let's just sit back. he has to confront those problems on his own, has to deal with those "details", which is undoubtedly the most illogical and insane usage of the word "details" i have ever encountered personally. time is on our side. let the "details" beat him up for a couple months. then he will be ready to talk. there is absolutely no chance he can take on all he is suggesting in the "few months" he is envisioning this update taking. let's just give it some time... and he will come back actually ready to compromise, because he will himself crave it, at that point. his update is functionally bigger than all other updates in the last 8 years, my entire tenure, COMBINED. thats the reality. i don't think he remotely gets that yet - but as you get to implementation - you can't skirt that reality, there is simply no way around it. 

This sounds like the long, long, extra long version of what several people have been stating since the initial announcement about the update.

I don't think you have to change D1 that much. Just cut the tournament money by 50 %, and it's a start. You could also work on the recruits generation so that you can find some talent. I play at D1, with a D- (was my choice) at Mississippi Valley State University, Big South, Allen. I went through two recruiting periods and it has been really hard to even find talent that will help a team future. First time around, all talent, even talent you needed to develop four years got recruited right away. This season, I probably found one or two sleepers, but it's because Missouri prevented others to come for that player, then decided to go for another player instead. I cannot recruit star players... I cannot even recruit players over 560, I normally need to pull them. If they have more than 590, they won't even consider my team.

I think that needs to be fixed. Everybody should be fair game, except maybe star players, three to five stars. I mean, let's say I pick up Marquette in Phelan... It's a solid program at D+. It's illogical that I won't be able to recruit two stars players right off the bat. The job system needs to be changed. I am hoping coaches will bring a bit of their success to the team they choose. And I am hoping there will be definite rules where people can be fired, people can grab a big six schools when they achieve some success at the D1 level and showed they do consistently. This thing needs to be fixed because it takes four years... to build a team in D1. Four is the minimum. I did it at IUPUI... I did it at La Salle. It took four years before I started competing. The only thing you see go down is your prestige.

So, it seems as if Seble is set in his ways with this update. There's plenty of excellent coaches making excellent suggestions, but they're falling on deaf ears. For some of the Coaches who pretty much know the update details as well as Seble, what would be your guess as to when this thing rolls out to all worlds? How much beta we talking? I'm resigned to the fact that it's happening, I just want to squeeze as many wins as possible out of my Oberlin program. Thanks in advance, and everyone have an awesome Friday.

Posted by p6453 on 9/25/2015 8:58:00 AM (view original):
So, it seems as if Seble is set in his ways with this update. There's plenty of excellent coaches making excellent suggestions, but they're falling on deaf ears. For some of the Coaches who pretty much know the update details as well as Seble, what would be your guess as to when this thing rolls out to all worlds? How much beta we talking? I'm resigned to the fact that it's happening, I just want to squeeze as many wins as possible out of my Oberlin program. Thanks in advance, and everyone have an awesome Friday.

Thanks Seble for working on this, I believe it will greatly help the game with the season-long recruiting, etc. My question: Can you provide a realistic timeline for coaches to expect these changes to be finally implemented? (salag - All-Star - 2:59 PM)

"I would expect it to take a few months to be ready for beta testing. After that, the release date will depend on how testing goes."

Thanks possum. That helps.

having managed developers for many years, and having been a developer myself for years before that - there is absolutely no way he gets this done in approx 3 months. not without stripping it down significantly, unless he just sends a huge pile of **** over to beta, in which case, that part of the cycle will (hopefully) be longer than expected. gonna have to pay for it somewhere.

if this release is out in 6 months, we are in for a rough ride... i would say, id be shocked if it was out in under 6 months, but, they have been known to just decide they are tired of working on something, and to beta it out the rest of the way on the paying customers.