Posted by a_in_the_b on 6/10/2016 12:36:00 PM (view original):
The people who aren't outrageously outraged don't feel compelled to rant on the forums.

Agreed, the problem is most business models show, they simply quietly leave.

Posted by oldresorter on 6/10/2016 11:39:00 AM (view original):
I posted this on the other thread too, so this is a cut and past:

"I posted most the morning on the beta site, so did seble, and maybe 8-10 others. I thought it went real well & there is a legitimate dialogue going on to make things better. There is really very little trolling / flaming going on, most suggestions, problems identified, and ideas to fix. often seble pipes in with ?'s or answers or a proposal for change.

The new system is far from perfect, but I like it from a big picture perspective. I would urge those who are on the fence to stay there, and give it a chance. I really think the game will take away from the very successful, and move more success to the middle, until a group sort of overpowers the game, and figures out the 'game' within the game, and rise to the top again. That should be exciting for all the vets in the game."

+1

Well put. The few flamers seem really out of place and desperate to find something to say; "the sky is falling" doesn't cut it. Nor does the inevitable misinformed ad hominem attack (see below).

Posted by CoachSpud on 6/10/2016 12:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by oldresorter on 6/10/2016 11:39:00 AM (view original):
I posted this on the other thread too, so this is a cut and past:

"I posted most the morning on the beta site, so did seble, and maybe 8-10 others. I thought it went real well & there is a legitimate dialogue going on to make things better. There is really very little trolling / flaming going on, most suggestions, problems identified, and ideas to fix. often seble pipes in with ?'s or answers or a proposal for change.

The new system is far from perfect, but I like it from a big picture perspective. I would urge those who are on the fence to stay there, and give it a chance. I really think the game will take away from the very successful, and move more success to the middle, until a group sort of overpowers the game, and figures out the 'game' within the game, and rise to the top again. That should be exciting for all the vets in the game."

+1

Well put. The few flamers seem really out of place and desperate to find something to say; "the sky is falling" doesn't cut it.

i think someone might of broken you, maybe seble created this account and has just been copy pasting because I don't think I've ever seen you post an intelligent thought other than +1 some bs someone posts and then praise seble

saying seble is smart doesn't cut it and you sounds stupid repeating it, the more you say it, doesn't make it more likely to be true

Posted by the0nlyis on 6/10/2016 12:57:00 PM (view original):

Posted by CoachSpud on 6/10/2016 12:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by oldresorter on 6/10/2016 11:39:00 AM (view original):
I posted this on the other thread too, so this is a cut and past:

"I posted most the morning on the beta site, so did seble, and maybe 8-10 others. I thought it went real well & there is a legitimate dialogue going on to make things better. There is really very little trolling / flaming going on, most suggestions, problems identified, and ideas to fix. often seble pipes in with ?'s or answers or a proposal for change.

The new system is far from perfect, but I like it from a big picture perspective. I would urge those who are on the fence to stay there, and give it a chance. I really think the game will take away from the very successful, and move more success to the middle, until a group sort of overpowers the game, and figures out the 'game' within the game, and rise to the top again. That should be exciting for all the vets in the game."

+1

Well put. The few flamers seem really out of place and desperate to find something to say; "the sky is falling" doesn't cut it.

i think someone might of broken you, maybe seble created this account and has just been copy pasting because I don't think I've ever seen you post an intelligent thought other than +1 some bs someone posts and then praise seble

saying seble is smart doesn't cut it and you sounds stupid repeating it, the more you say it, doesn't make it more likely to be true

bs implies I made something up. I did not. I was there this morning. I simply was trying to pass along some information, as it appeared from my perspective. Theonlyis, what is it you are trying to do in comparison to me, and which one of us is 'spouting' bs. It's fine you are unhappy with the new system - trust me, I understand. I wish there was something I could post for you to help you, but I cannot. I can for those interested in how the beta testing is going, so I did.

wait what? did I respond to you? I was too busy reading the **** coachdud wrote to bother reading yours, which after do I have 0 problem with what you posted....

i'm not saying the sky is falling. I am saying I (as well as a number of other thoughtful coaches) could list around 5 or so recruiting-based suggestions that the vast majority of coaches would agree are good for the game, whether they are vets or noobs, none of which would involve basically having to completely reinvent HD. Unfortunately WIS/HD/developers never proactively cared to seek input as the game slowly flounders. Instead gambling on a re-invent was the chosen path. WIS can run their business however they want.

wait you mean there has been a pretty much agreed upon list of idea's that would've most likely fixed HD for many years and they ignored it? But seble has been so active these past few days! How could he miss something so big like that!?

and sky isn't falling there's just a 7 magnitude earthquake coming, yeah you'll rebuild but it won't get like this which isn't even that great right now

Posted by vandydave on 6/10/2016 2:19:00 PM (view original):
i'm not saying the sky is falling. I am saying I (as well as a number of other thoughtful coaches) could list around 5 or so recruiting-based suggestions that the vast majority of coaches would agree are good for the game, whether they are vets or noobs, none of which would involve basically having to completely reinvent HD. Unfortunately WIS/HD/developers never proactively cared to seek input as the game slowly flounders. Instead gambling on a re-invent was the chosen path. WIS can run their business however they want.

This about sums it up. Recruiting was not broken. It could use tweaks (mostly at D1), but it honestly was one of the things not wrong with this game.

I can't speak for D1, but as long as I've been here, the biggest problem with this game has been marketing. Whether they want to acknowledge that is a whole different story.

Posted by vandydave on 6/10/2016 2:19:00 PM (view original):
i'm not saying the sky is falling. I am saying I (as well as a number of other thoughtful coaches) could list around 5 or so recruiting-based suggestions that the vast majority of coaches would agree are good for the game, whether they are vets or noobs, none of which would involve basically having to completely reinvent HD. Unfortunately WIS/HD/developers never proactively cared to seek input as the game slowly flounders. Instead gambling on a re-invent was the chosen path. WIS can run their business however they want.

This. There were lists of other things that could have been done rather than a full rewrite of recruiting, which worked perfectly well until Seble revamped recruit generation.

That, plus the horrific history of WIS as a company doing rollouts of major game changes, is what made me very skeptical of this change.

Posted by vandydave on 6/10/2016 2:19:00 PM (view original):
i'm not saying the sky is falling. I am saying I (as well as a number of other thoughtful coaches) could list around 5 or so recruiting-based suggestions that the vast majority of coaches would agree are good for the game, whether they are vets or noobs, none of which would involve basically having to completely reinvent HD. Unfortunately WIS/HD/developers never proactively cared to seek input as the game slowly flounders. Instead gambling on a re-invent was the chosen path. WIS can run their business however they want.

+1

Won't call it a death of HD, but I do see a melting of coaches in the short term.

Unlike the shift from GD to GD v2.0 (which was a complete and utter cluster flop) the saving grace here is that the engine for gameplay itself will not be changing. So the games will continue to run as-is, people will just have to get accustomed to the new recruiting mechanisms. And, again unlike GD, there seems to be much more information flowing from the beta world to the masses to alert folks to some of the changes.

That said, rolling out the beta to worlds in an as-is version would be a nightmare and a mistake. As-is, it is a flawed product and I'm not sure it even addresses the issue that was claimed as the rationale for its creation (I will defer to those doing the beta at D1 to voice an opinion on its effect there...). With attention to some of the issues that have been brought up, I can still in my mind see a route to where this will be a different, but not bad product. Human beings are naturally adverse to change, and there will undoubtedly be people who drop the game over this change, but I don't yet see this as a sign that the apocalypse is necessarily upon us.

My biggest concern is WIS' habit of doing things quickly rather than doing them right when it comes to the transition from beta to game worlds. Those who were here when the game engine in HD changed will recall the need to re-tweak that process over the 2-3 seasons because it was moved out of beta before the bugs were fully worked out of the process. This is also the reason why GD will never again receive a dime of my money.

my best thing was reading seble posting, "that's the story of my life on HD. There's no way to "win", just **** off the least amount of people."

well maybe don't put yourself in a lose-lose situation by ignoring HD for a couple years and then when you do decide to change it ignore a pretty much agreed upon consensus of what it wrong with the game and how to fix it.

hmm wonder why there was so much backlash, I knew seble was really out of touch with the game itself, I didn't think he was thaaat out of touch with the forums and how to not **** off your customers 101.

whether you like the update or not, if you've been here long enough there had been a pretty much accepted list of the major flaws with the game and the basics of recruiting weren't really a top priority it was more of lets go there when we fix the big problems....

Posted by a_in_the_b on 6/10/2016 12:36:00 PM (view original):
The people who aren't outrageously outraged don't feel compelled to rant on the forums.

+1

Posted by rednu on 6/10/2016 9:15:00 PM (view original):
Won't call it a death of HD, but I do see a melting of coaches in the short term.

Unlike the shift from GD to GD v2.0 (which was a complete and utter cluster flop) the saving grace here is that the engine for gameplay itself will not be changing. So the games will continue to run as-is, people will just have to get accustomed to the new recruiting mechanisms. And, again unlike GD, there seems to be much more information flowing from the beta world to the masses to alert folks to some of the changes.

That said, rolling out the beta to worlds in an as-is version would be a nightmare and a mistake. As-is, it is a flawed product and I'm not sure it even addresses the issue that was claimed as the rationale for its creation (I will defer to those doing the beta at D1 to voice an opinion on its effect there...). With attention to some of the issues that have been brought up, I can still in my mind see a route to where this will be a different, but not bad product. Human beings are naturally adverse to change, and there will undoubtedly be people who drop the game over this change, but I don't yet see this as a sign that the apocalypse is necessarily upon us.

My biggest concern is WIS' habit of doing things quickly rather than doing them right when it comes to the transition from beta to game worlds. Those who were here when the game engine in HD changed will recall the need to re-tweak that process over the 2-3 seasons because it was moved out of beta before the bugs were fully worked out of the process. This is also the reason why GD will never again receive a dime of my money.

In reference to the game engine not changing, I think most coaches would argue that HD is as much a game of recruiting as it is game planning, and that recruiting is more than 50% of success.

I'm 23-2 on there and ranked #2 and haven't done anything with my team. I hate the format. Didn't even bother recruiting or game-planning or anything. Just basically my team is a ghost team. If they switch to that awful format, I'm out.