Rebounding in the new engine Topic

isack24
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This is not a post to complain.  I'm simply wondering if someone coudl tell me if they have also noticed a problem with rebounding.

Here's the worst examlpe I've seen so far (and again, I don't care because it's an exhibition game, but I am concerned):

http://www.whatifsports.com/hd/GameResults/BoxScore.aspx?gid=5871119

I was outrebounded by 1, and I played man (he played fastbreak).

Here are the teams:

http://www.whatifsports.com/hd/TeamProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=3012

http://www.whatifsports.com/hd/TeamProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=3774

It really shouldn't have been close in my opinion.  I think I should have outrebounded him by 10.  My concern is that, especially during the exhibition games in Wooden, rebounding has been more random than in the old engine.  Anyone else agree?

Or if not, what can I do to make sure that teams who I have a large rebounding advantage against don't outrebound me?

6/23/2010 2:38 PM
fussyd
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Honesty, trying to draw conclusions about rebounding from a single game is pretty silly. Most of the discrepancy can probably be traced to a lucky offensive rebounding performance by Winsinski who was apparently able to grab a few of his many misses from three point territory. He is a pretty good rebounding guard so it doesn't seem that farfetched. You have no guards that can rebound like him.

Generally I have found rebounding to be pretty accurate so far. I always try to recruit rebounding and feel that my teams have played up to their above-average rebounding skills.
6/23/2010 2:53 PM (edited)
reinsel
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Hmm...well I'll try to explain it. 
Minute weighted ratings:


  A SPD REB DE BLK LP PE BH P WE ST DU
Marantha 51 55 41 39 35 35 38 40 40 36 77 39
HF 54 57 49 54 36 47 33 45 48 43 75 49

Marantha was outclassed in the rebounding category by 8, but was at home, so that probably is worth 2-3 points.
Holy Family missed 5 fts that resulted in rebounds, and I think those tend to go more towards the defensive side than the offensive side.  Holy Family got 1 of 5 FT rebounds, Marantha got 1 of 3. 

And I also think that Fastbreak offenses seem to rebound a higher % of their misses than other offenses, which makes sense since so often the defense hasn't set up and its tougher to block out in transition.
6/23/2010 2:58 PM (edited)
isack24
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Posted by fussyd on 6/23/2010 2:53:00 PM (view original):
Honesty, trying to draw conclusions about rebounding from a single game is pretty silly. Most of the discrepancy can probably be traced to a lucky offensive rebounding performance by Winsinski who was apparently able to grab a few of his many misses from three point territory. He is a pretty good rebounding guard so it doesn't seem that farfetched. You have no guards that can rebound like him.

Generally I have found rebounding to be pretty accurate so far. I always try to recruit rebounding and feel that my teams have played up to their above-average rebounding skills.
Absolutely.

Like I said, I was just providing what I thought was one of the worst ones I've seen.

I haven't found it to be that accurate, but that's kind of why I was asking.  Maybe I'm wrong.
6/23/2010 3:17 PM
isack24
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Posted by reinsel on 6/23/2010 2:58:00 PM (view original):
Hmm...well I'll try to explain it. 
Minute weighted ratings:


  A SPD REB DE BLK LP PE BH P WE ST DU
Marantha 51 55 41 39 35 35 38 40 40 36 77 39
HF 54 57 49 54 36 47 33 45 48 43 75 49

Marantha was outclassed in the rebounding category by 8, but was at home, so that probably is worth 2-3 points.
Holy Family missed 5 fts that resulted in rebounds, and I think those tend to go more towards the defensive side than the offensive side.  Holy Family got 1 of 5 FT rebounds, Marantha got 1 of 3. 

And I also think that Fastbreak offenses seem to rebound a higher % of their misses than other offenses, which makes sense since so often the defense hasn't set up and its tougher to block out in transition.
Thanks reinsel, I appreciate.

I absolutely agree with the final sentence, but on the flip side, press defenses should be more prone to giving up offensive rebounds, and that didn't happen.
6/23/2010 3:18 PM
isack24
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Posted by fussyd on 6/23/2010 2:53:00 PM (view original):
Honesty, trying to draw conclusions about rebounding from a single game is pretty silly. Most of the discrepancy can probably be traced to a lucky offensive rebounding performance by Winsinski who was apparently able to grab a few of his many misses from three point territory. He is a pretty good rebounding guard so it doesn't seem that farfetched. You have no guards that can rebound like him.

Generally I have found rebounding to be pretty accurate so far. I always try to recruit rebounding and feel that my teams have played up to their above-average rebounding skills.
And you're right, fussy, that I have no guards with 30 reb. 

But that's still only a 30 reb.

I have 4 guys with 80+ reb, he has 0.
6/23/2010 3:20 PM
isack24
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But I appreciate the help.  The real question wasn't so much about this game, it was more about whether others had noticed a problem.  If not, nevermind.
6/23/2010 3:22 PM
reinsel
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I always thought zones were the worse at giving up offensive rebounds.  But anyway, you did only get 8 of 29 (27.6%) of your misses while he got a crazy 16 of 44 for (36.4%).  But hard to go too overboard.  If you were equal (reasonable result for away game for you), he probably should only have gotten 2 less offensive rebounds, or you should have gotten 2 more. and then you'd be getting 32.2% and he would have gotten 31.8%. 

So its within what a normal variation should be I think.
6/23/2010 3:26 PM
reinsel
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I do think that HCA now affects rebounding more than it used to, whatever that is worth. 
6/23/2010 3:26 PM
fussyd
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Posted by isack24 on 6/23/2010 3:20:00 PM (view original):
Posted by fussyd on 6/23/2010 2:53:00 PM (view original):
Honesty, trying to draw conclusions about rebounding from a single game is pretty silly. Most of the discrepancy can probably be traced to a lucky offensive rebounding performance by Winsinski who was apparently able to grab a few of his many misses from three point territory. He is a pretty good rebounding guard so it doesn't seem that farfetched. You have no guards that can rebound like him.

Generally I have found rebounding to be pretty accurate so far. I always try to recruit rebounding and feel that my teams have played up to their above-average rebounding skills.
And you're right, fussy, that I have no guards with 30 reb. 

But that's still only a 30 reb.

I have 4 guys with 80+ reb, he has 0.
It doesn't matter if a big man has 1000 for his rebounding skill, he's still not going to get the long rebounds often created by three point attempts (of which you opponent took and missed quite a few). Those rebounds are going to be grabbed by the guard with a 30 rebound rating, not the guard with the 10 rebounding rating.
6/23/2010 3:36 PM
isack24
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Posted by reinsel on 6/23/2010 3:26:00 PM (view original):
I do think that HCA now affects rebounding more than it used to, whatever that is worth. 
Interesting.  That seems odd to me.  I'm confused why would being at home would increase rebounding ability.
6/23/2010 3:38 PM
isack24
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Posted by fussyd on 6/23/2010 3:36:00 PM (view original):
Posted by isack24 on 6/23/2010 3:20:00 PM (view original):
Posted by fussyd on 6/23/2010 2:53:00 PM (view original):
Honesty, trying to draw conclusions about rebounding from a single game is pretty silly. Most of the discrepancy can probably be traced to a lucky offensive rebounding performance by Winsinski who was apparently able to grab a few of his many misses from three point territory. He is a pretty good rebounding guard so it doesn't seem that farfetched. You have no guards that can rebound like him.

Generally I have found rebounding to be pretty accurate so far. I always try to recruit rebounding and feel that my teams have played up to their above-average rebounding skills.
And you're right, fussy, that I have no guards with 30 reb. 

But that's still only a 30 reb.

I have 4 guys with 80+ reb, he has 0.
It doesn't matter if a big man has 1000 for his rebounding skill, he's still not going to get the long rebounds often created by three point attempts (of which you opponent took and missed quite a few). Those rebounds are going to be grabbed by the guard with a 30 rebound rating, not the guard with the 10 rebounding rating.
If you say so, I guess I'll go with it.  I would think ath/spd would be equally important as reb if we're talking about tracking down a board.  I thought the reb rating was about blocking out, fundamentals, etc.  I suppose I shoudl refresh my knowledge of that.

I don't really think the difference between 31 and 15 reb rating is as big as you're making it out to be, but again, it's not really the point.  Those things happen.  But you seem to be justifying an odd, albeit not horrendous, result with the one SG matchup when I have a fairly sizeable overall reb edge.  Even if you take away his SG, he got too many offensive rebounds, and I got too few, I think.

But reinsel is probably right about it being within a semi-normal range.  Just looked odd at first.
6/23/2010 3:48 PM
isack24
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Posted by reinsel on 6/23/2010 3:26:00 PM (view original):
I always thought zones were the worse at giving up offensive rebounds.  But anyway, you did only get 8 of 29 (27.6%) of your misses while he got a crazy 16 of 44 for (36.4%).  But hard to go too overboard.  If you were equal (reasonable result for away game for you), he probably should only have gotten 2 less offensive rebounds, or you should have gotten 2 more. and then you'd be getting 32.2% and he would have gotten 31.8%. 

So its within what a normal variation should be I think.
I would say zone is the worst, but press is worse than man.
6/23/2010 3:49 PM
fussyd
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Again, you're trying to analyze one game and make it have too much meaning. This game relies on rolls of the dice, which sometimes leads to odd results such as a team getting more offensive rebounds than it should (that team got some lucky rolls, the other team didn't). It's really not any more ominous than that.

If you have a great rebounding team, that will almosy undoubtedly come across in a season worth of dice rolls.
6/23/2010 4:43 PM
isack24
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Yeah, I totally agree.  I never meant to get into a disagreement about this one particular game.
6/23/2010 5:31 PM
Rebounding in the new engine Topic
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