"Striving for realism" Topic

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pinkeye
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nobodys holding a gun to your head, chief.
6/25/2010 7:32 AM
kowboykoop
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Yeah, teams in real life never get hot. Every team that shots 33% from 3-point land should shoot exactly 5-15 from beyond the arc literally every single game. That would be fun. Any variation at all is stupid.
6/25/2010 7:34 AM
trobone
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i would more blame the loss on 24 fouls and 18 turnovers.... freethrows made a big difference too... but that's from a very inexperienced HD person...

6/25/2010 7:35 AM
mjp8
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 I'm sure if his team was a 33% shooting team but got hot in a game and won in an upset he would still want to quit.

People only seem to hate this new engine when they lose. Every loss is the new engine's fault, not the fact that sometimes upsets happen. I have a team in Crum that sucks this year, I beat a ranked team leading our conference and his response is "now I remember why I quit this game twice" Don't you guys know every good team never loses, so unrealistic


6/25/2010 8:06 AM (edited)
rsvphr
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When you consider the number of intricacies in basketball, the variables, the volatility of the humanity involved, I think it's remarkable that this game has been assembled and propelled to the level it has achieved, warts and all.. I've been out-rebounded by lesser centers, held to 55 points by lesser defenses and had an 85 perimeter shooter go 2-12. I've also had a 1 Per player hit a 3 pt shot, gotten 4 steals from a 9 DEF player and beaten the #5 team in the country on the road when I was 2-7 with an 193 RPI. It is the uncertainty of outcome and the abilty of coaches to impact the outcome that makes this game worthwhile.

If that stops happpening, that's when I quit. I've never had more fun in my life, win or lose, regardless. And if it's the perfect engine you're waiting for, good luck.
6/25/2010 9:05 AM
johnsensing
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i think several of the responses to this thread are building some strawmen.  The original post is not so much as a complaint that the other team "got hot" or that mu "hates the new engine when he loses," but that despite a major advantage in spd, and playing a + defense, an inferior team still bombed him out from 3.   that should not happen -- in DI, that Kent St team shouldn't be able to go 11-19 from 3 in an empty gym. 

my understanding was that the new engine was supposed to be designed to give players more "control" over the game -- if you play a + defense and an inferior still crushes you from 3 (and this is NOT an isolated incident), what's the point of gameplanning at all?  this seems to be to be a major flaw in the new engine (which i otherwise generally like).

6/25/2010 9:13 AM
kowboykoop
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Posted by johnsensing on 6/25/2010 9:13:00 AM (view original):

i think several of the responses to this thread are building some strawmen.  The original post is not so much as a complaint that the other team "got hot" or that mu "hates the new engine when he loses," but that despite a major advantage in spd, and playing a + defense, an inferior team still bombed him out from 3.   that should not happen -- in DI, that Kent St team shouldn't be able to go 11-19 from 3 in an empty gym. 

my understanding was that the new engine was supposed to be designed to give players more "control" over the game -- if you play a + defense and an inferior still crushes you from 3 (and this is NOT an isolated incident), what's the point of gameplanning at all?  this seems to be to be a major flaw in the new engine (which i otherwise generally like).

So, a  bad shooting team should NEVER HAVE ONE GOOD SHOOTING GAME EVER.

That's what you're saying.

Do you watch sports? Bad three point shooting teams have good games all the time. Dallas Braden threw a freaking perfect game...bet that should probably "never happen" according to hit ratings. Jose Lima won a hell of a lot of ballgames one year. Guess MLB in real life is unrealistic. Brian Scalabrine scored 29 points in a game one time. Yeah, Brian Scalabrine....nearly 10x his career average, DESPITE THE RATINGS!!! How can that happen??

There are reasons to complain about the engine. A team having a good shooting night isn't one of them...and it happens more in this game than in real life because there are SOOOO many more games in the WIS universe per calender year than in real life..thus things that happen only 10 or so times a calender year in real life are going to be seen a hell of a lot more in WIS because there are multiple worlds that EACH play at least 7-8 times as many games per year than their real life counterparts...think about it.
6/25/2010 9:48 AM
reinsel
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Yeah I think you are deserving of complaining, but not of the engine changing.  You'll win a few like that too if you play enough.
6/25/2010 9:50 AM
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muredskin00
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Posted by kowboykoop on 6/25/2010 9:48:00 AM (view original):
Posted by johnsensing on 6/25/2010 9:13:00 AM (view original):

i think several of the responses to this thread are building some strawmen.  The original post is not so much as a complaint that the other team "got hot" or that mu "hates the new engine when he loses," but that despite a major advantage in spd, and playing a + defense, an inferior team still bombed him out from 3.   that should not happen -- in DI, that Kent St team shouldn't be able to go 11-19 from 3 in an empty gym. 

my understanding was that the new engine was supposed to be designed to give players more "control" over the game -- if you play a + defense and an inferior still crushes you from 3 (and this is NOT an isolated incident), what's the point of gameplanning at all?  this seems to be to be a major flaw in the new engine (which i otherwise generally like).

So, a  bad shooting team should NEVER HAVE ONE GOOD SHOOTING GAME EVER.

That's what you're saying.

Do you watch sports? Bad three point shooting teams have good games all the time. Dallas Braden threw a freaking perfect game...bet that should probably "never happen" according to hit ratings. Jose Lima won a hell of a lot of ballgames one year. Guess MLB in real life is unrealistic. Brian Scalabrine scored 29 points in a game one time. Yeah, Brian Scalabrine....nearly 10x his career average, DESPITE THE RATINGS!!! How can that happen??

There are reasons to complain about the engine. A team having a good shooting night isn't one of them...and it happens more in this game than in real life because there are SOOOO many more games in the WIS universe per calender year than in real life..thus things that happen only 10 or so times a calender year in real life are going to be seen a hell of a lot more in WIS because there are multiple worlds that EACH play at least 7-8 times as many games per year than their real life counterparts...think about it.
I'll only focus on your Scalabrine example because your baseball examples are completely off point.  Whether or not he's a good NBA player, Scalabrine IS an NBA player, and the talent level between him and his peers is significantly closer than the talent disparity between the two teams in question.  If Ron Artest or Bruce Bowen backed off Scalabrine all night and dared him to shoot, I can see him putting in 29 on talent alone.  But if those defenders are in his face, it will NEVER happen.

This is a hell of a lot more than a team having a "good shooting night."  This is exactly what john said it was - a ridiculously inferior team shoots lights out against a defense in place that is specifically designed to stop outside shooting.  If I played a minus defense, then your argument might carry weight.  But I didn't and it doesn't.  And john's points about the effects of gameplanning and the frequency that these types of outliers occur are right on the money and ultimately the issues here.
6/25/2010 10:37 AM (edited)
dukenilnil1
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The real question is...what was the OP doing playing + defense against a team he thought was a horrible 3-point shooting team.  Effectiveness of the game plan or not, it seems an odd choice.

P.S.  Just posting this to stir the pot and feeling ornery.  No malice intended.

6/25/2010 10:38 AM
brrexkl
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  Taking One Game is building a Strawman.  Now, if FOR THE SEASON teams shot .100 or more over their Average against his Team, and they were all as ill-suited to shoot 3's as the team he just faced, he'd have a Case.  That would show that TO MANY teams were getting 'lucky' against him, even though he has prepared them to stop the 3.

  1 Game, though?  Proves nothing, and using that as statistical evidence is as Straw Man as it get.  

  The other time got very lucky.  It happens.  If it happens again, THEN we start nearing the 'Concern' area.  If it happens a 3rd Time, now it's time to get passionate and ticked.  Happens 4 times, same season, now we need to get WIS to tweek something just a bit.

  Sometimes the PERFECT Game Plan doesn't work, even with BETTER PLAYERS.  It's the Law of Averages.  Over a 30+ Game Season it is PROBABLE that a Team will get really lucky in one of those games.  Shouldn't happen all the time, but 1 Time seems about right.

  Here is why some people get so crazy about this.  I've yet to see a Post like this:

  "Well, I saw this happen in my First Game this Season.  Figured it was a fluke, things happen.  He played into my Game Plan with inferior Players, and still came out on top.  So I let it go, but made a note of it.  So I get in Conference Play, and my Conference is mostly Sims that I usually smack down.  4 Sim Teams and 2 Human Teams I usually slaughter played INTO MY GAME PLAN, each with INFERIOR PLAYERS/TEAMS, and completely dismantled it for Wins.

  Now, Once was one thing.  I understand, teams can get lucky.  But I've seem 7 Times Now my Game Plan get PLAYED INTO and BEAT by INFERIOR TEAMS/PLAYERS.  Now, I'll Link those Games.  Am I missing something here?  Can anyone see what is going on here?  If so, that could help me a ton.  I'm fairly certain I had the right Game Plans for these teams and my guys were better.  Have I over-looked something?  If not, is anyone else experiencing this, to this Degree.  Please, no One Bad Games... I'm looking for 3 or More in a Season.  If so, we may have a problem that WIS needs to Address"

  I have NEVER, in HD, GD, Hardball... even SimDynasty (another entity altogether) seen something Posted like that.  It's always 1 Game and the Sky is Falling (Engine Broke!)  It's the whole 'hair trigger sensitivity' that is projected when guys come out and use ONE GAME as the end all be all of Engine Effectiveness.
6/25/2010 10:56 AM
pinkeye
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+2 isn't "specifically designed to stop outside shooting" on multiple levels
6/25/2010 11:04 AM
johnsensing
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Posted by dukenilnil1 on 6/25/2010 10:38:00 AM (view original):

The real question is...what was the OP doing playing + defense against a team he thought was a horrible 3-point shooting team.  Effectiveness of the game plan or not, it seems an odd choice.

P.S.  Just posting this to stir the pot and feeling ornery.  No malice intended.

because SIM teams almost invariably jack tons of threes. 
6/25/2010 11:19 AM
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