its amazing how much people whitewash all of the flaws in the old engine when complaining abotu issues with the new one and proclaiming the old ;better'

My gripes so far:

Too much red categories for recruits
Stamina is way too low for the new recruits.  
Combo defenses do not appear to be working right at high DI (especially m2m/press). Do not know about the other divisiobs.  I  feel that since the 6/16 update that the game has become m2m dynasty. 
Slowdown seems to have made a comeback after the 6/16 update
Fouls are still too high.

I probably missed some things as this was off the top of my head. 

Posted by grecianfox on 6/27/2010 1:42:00 PM (view original):
My gripes so far:

Too much red categories for recruits
Stamina is way too low for the new recruits.  
Combo defenses do not appear to be working right at high DI (especially m2m/press). Do not know about the other divisiobs.  I  feel that since the 6/16 update that the game has become m2m dynasty. 
Slowdown seems to have made a comeback after the 6/16 update
Fouls are still too high.

I probably missed some things as this was off the top of my head. 

          Yeah, it's looking a LOT like m2m dynasty at this point.  I'm going to give it more time before I switch my Whitman team, though.  Never know what kind of tweak seble is going to make with no notice.

Keep in mind, this is still a mix of old and new players. .

Posted by emy1013 on 6/27/2010 3:31:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dalter on 6/26/2010 9:09:00 AM (view original):
Right now, old engine.

If seble can fix the handful of consistent problems that are plaguing this engine, then it'll definitely be the new engine. But he's gotta come through.

Wow, this is classic.  A couple of weeks ago, I said that the new engine was a bust (this when they had to bring it back in for some major tune-ups.  About the time that they reset the first two worlds that were using it).  I said then that I would have loved to have kept the old engine until the new one was ACTUALLY ready to be rolled out.  A certain coach jumped all over me using the argument that the old engine had some major/fatal flaws and asked why I would want to continue using a faulty engine with known deficiencies.  Well, lo and behold, that coach is quoted above saying that at this point in time, because of "consistent problems" with the new version, he'd rather use the old engine.  You know, the one I got dogged about because it had known faults, flaws, and deficiencies.  How ironic........... 

Some bits of reality mixed in with some revisionist history going on there, my friend.

I have said more times than I can count that they rolled out this engine sooner than they should've, and that it has some clear flaws. My point during that conversation was that the old engine had very clear flaws, too, and that people seemed to be conveniently glossing over those in their stampede to champion the old engine. My sub-point was that the damage had been done and the new engine had been rolled out too soon, so with that being the case, let's focus on getting the necessary fixes in the new engine.

Posted by hitman1979 on 6/27/2010 12:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by emy1013 on 6/27/2010 3:31:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dalter on 6/26/2010 9:09:00 AM (view original):
Right now, old engine.

If seble can fix the handful of consistent problems that are plaguing this engine, then it'll definitely be the new engine. But he's gotta come through.

Wow, this is classic.  A couple of weeks ago, I said that the new engine was a bust (this when they had to bring it back in for some major tune-ups.  About the time that they reset the first two worlds that were using it).  I said then that I would have loved to have kept the old engine until the new one was ACTUALLY ready to be rolled out.  A certain coach jumped all over me using the argument that the old engine had some major/fatal flaws and asked why I would want to continue using a faulty engine with known deficiencies.  Well, lo and behold, that coach is quoted above saying that at this point in time, because of "consistent problems" with the new version, he'd rather use the old engine.  You know, the one I got dogged about because it had known faults, flaws, and deficiencies.  How ironic........... 

Sad, but not surprising, given the person in question's track record.

With you being one of the biggest jackasses on this board, I take that as a compliment. Being aligned with a hitman or a colonels would make me seriously question my position on something.

Posted by isack24 on 6/27/2010 2:34:00 PM (view original):
Totally disagree about it being m2m dynasty at the lower levels.

I was just speaking for High DI. Really have no clue as to how things are working at the lower levels.

Posted by grecianfox on 6/27/2010 3:10:00 PM (view original):

Posted by isack24 on 6/27/2010 2:34:00 PM (view original):
Totally disagree about it being m2m dynasty at the lower levels.

I was just speaking for High DI. Really have no clue as to how things are working at the lower levels.

I really don't agree with that at all, grecian. 

In Allen, three of the top nine teams run fcp, another runs hcp/m2m, four run m2m and another runs zone. Or I even just look at my conference -- we put 7 in the NT, four of whom are fcp and another is hcp/m2m. One zone team and one running m2m and zone. Not a single straight m2m team in the bunch and the majority fcp.

My experience in Naismith this season is that the straight m2m teams are taking it to the other teams. Lots of teams that previously ran m2m/press have dropped the press part. Straight press teams are still doing okay. 

Why would you think hcp/m2m teams would be struggling but fcp teams aren't?

What I have seen is that the gross inequity that used to favor fcp teams has been corrected. Now if you want to excel with the press, you need really good depth and stamina, and also strong sp/ath. That's really how it should've been all along. It's refreshing to see that a fcp can't just roll out the ball and create defensive havoc regardless of depth, stamina or relative talent level.

Posted by dalter on 6/27/2010 3:45:00 PM (view original):
Why would you think hcp/m2m teams would be struggling but fcp teams aren't?

What I have seen is that the gross inequity that used to favor fcp teams has been corrected. Now if you want to excel with the press, you need really good depth and stamina, and also strong sp/ath. That's really how it should've been all along. It's refreshing to see that a fcp can't just roll out the ball and create defensive havoc regardless of depth, stamina or relative talent level.

i personally think the gross inequity is now the other way. fouls are so out of hand with the press, its seemingly impossible to get consistent performance out of a press team. the press was long disadvantaged for teams on the lower end and had the upper hand at top levels, i think. but now, with the volatility for press up so much, and volatility being enemy #1 for top level teams, i am not sure the press makes a whole lot of sense anywhere. i am pretty much happy with all of the other changes that work to balance the defenses, i think without so much fouling, a nice balance would be struck.

to the original question, i think i would say new engine for now but don't know enough about it to be sure. i enjoy change just because it makes things exciting and fresh, but in 6 months when the freshness is gone, i really am not sure which i would prefer. i think fouls need to be reexamined across the board, i think per shooting guards draw too many fouls and all defenses are generating too many fouls. overall when the dust settles i think the new engine will be more fun.

I have so far played 2 full seasons with the new engine plus 10 games in Naismith and 3 in Tark. I ran fcp with my teams in Tark and Phelan and went a combined 49-12. My Tark team was a monster (80+spd, ath, and 90+ defense) and I was not affected by the increased fouls much at all. My Phelan team was less talented and did about as well as expected. Most of those games were played before the 6/16 "tweak."  Practiced both m2m and press last season and am not sure what I will do yet with the Phelan team.

10 games into the season in Naismith, my Wake Forest team is a mess running m2m/hcp. I returned 10 from a number 1 seed that made the sweet sixteen. I have been more talented than every team I have played except for one(Texas). and am struggling to put away teams I should be killing. The coup de grace was a nearly 20 pt home loss to Dusquesne that has one player that would make my two deep. Seems I am getting all the disadvantages of the press with my hcp with little in the way of forced tos.  Am only 4 games in with Michigan running fcp and cannot get a good read yet. I won two games against overmatched opponents but have given up a layup line the last two nights(one loss to a msm team that was less talented and the other to a fcp team that is slower/less athletic. 

Felt that i had a pretty good read on things prior to the tweak. Sorry for the long post. Just not a fan of the new engine so far.