Seble's Development Blog (top of page) Topic

mullycj
Posts: 2737 (0)
Hall of Famer
214 1
Prospect
OR - I agree that rebounding should be a combination of REB, ATH, and SPD (in that order of importance).
The current engine does not reward teams with superior numbers in those 3 ratings. I really have no idea how this current engine determines rebounding. Sort of like I had no idea how the half time adjustments could get so fouled up untile CS said the engine interpreted going 1-1 from the arc as shooting 100% and would move your team to ++ at the half.
7/12/2010 1:21 PM
seble
Posts: 880 (0)
Hall of Famer
24 44 35 306 121 185
Prospect
Rebounding ability is a combo of Rebounding, Athleticism, and IQ, with rebounding carrying the most weight.  There is also the normal adjustments made for health and fatigue.  The results on a rebound are also impacted by individual matchups, team settings (e.g. offense/defense, positioning), and player position (i.e. guards are less likely to get a rebound).  That's all there is to it.  I'll be reviewing it this week to see if anything is out of whack, but I have a suspicion that fatigue may be playing a big part.
7/12/2010 2:18 PM
kelby_03
Posts: 78 (0)
Hall of Famer
1 242 1
Prospect
Posted by oldresorter on 7/12/2010 10:58:00 AM (view original):
Posted by alblack56 on 7/12/2010 9:48:00 AM (view original):
I agree, the top 25 is a low priority.

The big issues I see with the engine are : 

1) excessive fouling and/or  big disparity in fouls between 2 teams

2) rebounding doesn't seem to follow the rating logic....i.e.  supposedly 'bad' rebounders have better stats than better players
al - I am sure reb will get changed, really is too bad, I thought reb used to be a function of how good the player was not only at REEB, but also SP, ATH, STAM, some even thought WE was part of the formula, I found it to be very predictable and consistent .... I find the notion that great rebounding equals great REB to be a big step backwards in the game
Admin once told me WE was part of the formula. Surprised me at the time.
7/12/2010 2:21 PM
kelby_03
Posts: 78 (0)
Hall of Famer
1 242 1
Prospect
vandydave put together a very nice survey for HD coaches a couple years ago. A lot of good information and discussion resulted from it. Too bad it was mostly ignored by the developers...
7/12/2010 2:26 PM
jbasnight
Posts: 113 (0)
Hall of Famer
3 325 8
Prospect
Posted by antonsirius on 7/12/2010 12:08:00 PM (view original):
Posted by girt25 on 7/12/2010 10:52:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tmacfan12 on 7/12/2010 10:35:00 AM (view original):
I like the recruits. I feel like no one else feels the same way but you cant just get perfect guys anymore. For instance, at MSU I just recruited a stud defensive rebounding center but he has 50 LP average. Now next season I have to recruit a low post scorer. I never had that dilemma in the old engine. 
tmac, you're missing the bigger picture here. No one is suggesting that we should keep everyone at 90+ like they did before.

The point is that under the current set-up, the low and mid DI teams just don't have a chance to compete. The decline from the top tier of recruits to the next tiers is so precipitous (and most potentials are so low), that it is guaranteed to result in a gross competitive imbalance.

If seble (1) increased potential and (2) made a more significant group of players that fell in between the studs and the dregs, the issue would be easily addressed. And you could still keep this great variety and ensure that the we weren't stuck with all teams having 90+ players.
Well, I can only speak for myself, but I had little difficulty finding a guy ranked in the 90s at his position, who was listed as low DI-quality, who had High/Average potential pretty much across the board and who should end up being a solid backup for me at worst. And he was undecided a few cycles into Smith recruiting - had there been any lower level schools on him when I saw him I likely wouldn't have battled, because I was specifically looking for someone I could get dirt cheap.
This is the point, though--Boyer is decent, but a team having to start a guy like that is likely at a disadvantage at the PF position. (For what it's worth, I thought about him anyway, but I couldn't get past the lack of speed.)
7/12/2010 2:34 PM
jbasnight
Posts: 113 (0)
Hall of Famer
3 325 8
Prospect
Posted by seble on 7/12/2010 2:18:00 PM (view original):
Rebounding ability is a combo of Rebounding, Athleticism, and IQ, with rebounding carrying the most weight.  There is also the normal adjustments made for health and fatigue.  The results on a rebound are also impacted by individual matchups, team settings (e.g. offense/defense, positioning), and player position (i.e. guards are less likely to get a rebound).  That's all there is to it.  I'll be reviewing it this week to see if anything is out of whack, but I have a suspicion that fatigue may be playing a big part.

Wait...player position comes into play? I did not know that.

7/12/2010 2:35 PM
sully712
Posts: 124 (0)
Hall of Famer
1 301 2 22
Prospect
I believe he means position on the court at the time...not the players actual listed position.
7/12/2010 2:51 PM
daalter
Posts: 326 (0)
Hall of Famer
40
Prospect
Posted by kelby_03 on 7/12/2010 2:26:00 PM (view original):
vandydave put together a very nice survey for HD coaches a couple years ago. A lot of good information and discussion resulted from it. Too bad it was mostly ignored by the developers...
Yep, I had actually been thinking lately about reprising that, looks like I won't have to now, which is great.
7/12/2010 3:23 PM
daalter
Posts: 326 (0)
Hall of Famer
40
Prospect
Posted by seble on 7/12/2010 2:18:00 PM (view original):
Rebounding ability is a combo of Rebounding, Athleticism, and IQ, with rebounding carrying the most weight.  There is also the normal adjustments made for health and fatigue.  The results on a rebound are also impacted by individual matchups, team settings (e.g. offense/defense, positioning), and player position (i.e. guards are less likely to get a rebound).  That's all there is to it.  I'll be reviewing it this week to see if anything is out of whack, but I have a suspicion that fatigue may be playing a big part.
Thanks very much for chiming in.

I think in general stamina is playing too big a role in everything. As rails and others have pointed out, stamina in real life doesn't play a major role -- the vast, vast majority of players have pretty similar stamina, you don't see this many guys coming in with sta between 40-60 like with these recruits, and being tired doesn't effect players even a fraction as much as it does in the engine. Ft shooting is a perfect example.
7/12/2010 3:32 PM
narcotico
Posts: 363 (0)
Hall of Famer
1 74 36
Pro
Posted by seble on 7/12/2010 2:18:00 PM (view original):
Rebounding ability is a combo of Rebounding, Athleticism, and IQ, with rebounding carrying the most weight.  There is also the normal adjustments made for health and fatigue.  The results on a rebound are also impacted by individual matchups, team settings (e.g. offense/defense, positioning), and player position (i.e. guards are less likely to get a rebound).  That's all there is to it.  I'll be reviewing it this week to see if anything is out of whack, but I have a suspicion that fatigue may be playing a big part.
Seble - Shouldn't speed also factor into rebounding, at least to a small degree?


7/12/2010 5:08 PM
daalter
Posts: 326 (0)
Hall of Famer
40
Prospect
If so, I would say only for a very small degree -- and only for chasing down long rebounds. (Even then it's very rarely flat-out speed and more just an initial burst/reaction to the ball, which I think is athleticism.)
7/12/2010 5:19 PM
metsmax
Posts: 1598 (0)
Hall of Famer
5 2 836 2
Pro

Wes Unseld

7/12/2010 5:28 PM
antonsirius
Posts: 2567 (0)
Hall of Famer
167 135 9 20
Prospect
Posted by jbasnight on 7/12/2010 2:34:00 PM:
This is the point, though--Boyer is decent, but a team having to start a guy like that is likely at a disadvantage at the PF position. (For what it's worth, I thought about him anyway, but I couldn't get past the lack of speed.)

He's a C, not a PF, and he's got High potential with that 17 SPD so it should be workable. And he should be at least at about 75-80 in ATH/REB/LP, and a bit higher in DEF, once he develops. Against a team with 90s across the board, yeah, that won't cut it, but I don't see how a team with upper classmen of that level (and the IQs to match) can't be competitive in the new HD.
7/12/2010 5:43 PM
narcotico
Posts: 363 (0)
Hall of Famer
1 74 36
Pro
Posted by daalter on 7/12/2010 5:19:00 PM (view original):
If so, I would say only for a very small degree -- and only for chasing down long rebounds. (Even then it's very rarely flat-out speed and more just an initial burst/reaction to the ball, which I think is athleticism.)
 I interpret "burst" as quickness, more or less. According to the players guide, "quickness" falls into the speed category, not ath....and regardless of your definitions certainly a player's quickness(speed) should have some effect on rebounding. "Reaction" I'm not sure exactly what you mean. If it means recognizing a play, or anticipation, I would think that falls under IQ. Moot point though, if quickness=speed then speed needs to be in the rebounding calculations.

It could be situational(i.e. long rebounds, open court situations), but quickness/speed should be accounted for in some way.

Reb = Reb(50%) + Ath(20%) +IQ(20%) + Speed(10%) ?

7/12/2010 6:03 PM (edited)
arssanguinus
Posts: 1120 (0)
Hall of Famer
283 1
Pro
Posted by jbasnight on 7/12/2010 2:35:00 PM (view original):
Posted by seble on 7/12/2010 2:18:00 PM (view original):
Rebounding ability is a combo of Rebounding, Athleticism, and IQ, with rebounding carrying the most weight.  There is also the normal adjustments made for health and fatigue.  The results on a rebound are also impacted by individual matchups, team settings (e.g. offense/defense, positioning), and player position (i.e. guards are less likely to get a rebound).  That's all there is to it.  I'll be reviewing it this week to see if anything is out of whack, but I have a suspicion that fatigue may be playing a big part.

Wait...player position comes into play? I did not know that.

Not the position they are listed at, the position they are playing at:  ANyone playing guard, wether he is listed as a center or a guard, is less likely to get rebounds than the same player playing at center.

7/12/2010 6:47 PM
◂ Prev 123 Next ▸
Seble's Development Blog (top of page) Topic
△Top△Bottom

Search Criteria

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

© 1999-2026 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.