Posted by colonels19 on 8/7/2010 10:27:00 AM (view original):

Posted by daalter on 8/7/2010 10:19:00 AM (view original):
Hell, as long as we're on the subject of Wisconsin rb's, another guy that Dayne eventually pushed out was Aaron Stecker, who was also really ****** about PT and transferred to Western Illinois before eventually making the NFL for about eight seasons.

what was said in either situation...you're still being very vague. If you were there, I want to hear about some back and forth, what was said, etc. You saw some guy sulking in a chair in the lockerroom...nice. I just don't get why you're trying to be vague here. Perhaps you're no longer a sportswriter because you weren't interesting enough...

Interesting comment from a perpetually unemployed hack that can't even hold his own on an internet message board. Good stuff. Truth be told, I stopped writing because I sold out, and now work for a large company that pays me a lot of money. Is that what you wanted to hear? 

And I'm not being remotely vague. I instantly responded back with two first-hand examples that I witnessed with my own eyes. If you think I should have verbatim quotes from 1996/97, that's absurd. But I knew both of those guys pretty well, and they were ****** off. I mean, Stecker transferred to friggin' Western Illinois he was so ****** off about playing time, what else do you need to know? 

Do you actually think that it's uncommon for guys riding the bench to be ****** off about it? I'm assuming that you're just arguing the point to argue with me, and that you can't really be that dumb, but perhaps I'm mistaken.

Posted by daalter on 8/7/2010 11:48:00 AM (view original):

Posted by colonels19 on 8/7/2010 10:27:00 AM (view original):

Posted by daalter on 8/7/2010 10:19:00 AM (view original):
Hell, as long as we're on the subject of Wisconsin rb's, another guy that Dayne eventually pushed out was Aaron Stecker, who was also really ****** about PT and transferred to Western Illinois before eventually making the NFL for about eight seasons.

what was said in either situation...you're still being very vague. If you were there, I want to hear about some back and forth, what was said, etc. You saw some guy sulking in a chair in the lockerroom...nice. I just don't get why you're trying to be vague here. Perhaps you're no longer a sportswriter because you weren't interesting enough...

Interesting comment from a perpetually unemployed hack that can't even hold his own on an internet message board. Good stuff. Truth be told, I stopped writing because I sold out, and now work for a large company that pays me a lot of money. Is that what you wanted to hear? 

And I'm not being remotely vague. I instantly responded back with two first-hand examples that I witnessed with my own eyes. If you think I should have verbatim quotes from 1996/97, that's absurd. But I knew both of those guys pretty well, and they were ****** off. I mean, Stecker transferred to friggin' Western Illinois he was so ****** off about playing time, what else do you need to know? 

Do you actually think that it's uncommon for guys riding the bench to be ****** off about it? I'm assuming that you're just arguing the point to argue with me, and that you can't really be that dumb, but perhaps I'm mistaken.

I actually got a job earlier this week, so hopefully all works out. As far as your life goes...gfy...and by that I mean good for you lol. Perhaps the more intelligent thing is to go where the money is, but I personally will never stop dreaming and I think the money will come eventually, but I could be dead wrong too. Congrats on your life success.

Good, now I get the chance to enlighten you. I'm a detail-oriented guy, thus I want to know what was said, because you saying that Stecker and the other guy were very ****** doesn't do much for me and it doesn't do much for anyone. You can't remotely give me some give and take about what was said? I mean dude, this supposedly seemed like your dream job and you're going to tell me you forgot/don't remember? You'd think that a guy like you would like to tell stories like this, especially to guys like me that want to read/listen...I just find it kind of bizarre that you won't divulge more of what happened...unless you don't precisely know. Also, fwiw, Stecker probably transferred to Western Illinois so he wouldn't have to sit a year, because if you transfer from FBS to FCS, or any divisional switch I think, you don't have to sit a year because of your transfer...so it actually makes sense that he went to WIU.

Perhaps I'm just the most understanding, logical person on earth because if I was on the bench and coach told me why I was on the bench and what I could do to get better or that I would be starting in a few years and that it's nothing personal, just business...I would be pacified. No, I wouldn't be happy sitting the bench, but I would understand, ESPECIALLY if the team was winning and winning a lot. I don't think it's uncommon that guys are ****** about riding the bench, though I don't think it's as common as you're suggesting, and tying it back to my main point, I don't really see how or why this has any place in HD, because to a degree, it's uncontrollable. The only thing this relatively random feature can do is **** people off...I would have to think long and hard about including that in a game of mine, given that nature.

Again, we're talking about events from 1996 and 1997. It's totally absurd to think I would remember exactly what was said, particularly for situations that weren't at all important or relevant. (Unlike, say, what Ty Calderwood said to me in the locker room after they lost in the NT to Southwest Missouri State, 43-32 ... but to think I would remember the specifics of a throwaway conversation from 14 years ago ... come on, that's just ridiculous.) But again, Stecker transferred because he was ****** off about riding the pine, so that situation is not exactly shrouded in mystery.

To address the point you're making that actually has some substance -- what does it bring to the game? It brings strategy and decision making. You have to decide if it's worth giving a player some more PT to ensure that he stays around, or keep him on the bench and gamble that he might leave. It also makes you be smarter about how you build your team. If you're going to go for broke and have tons of upperclassmen at once, you know that you run the risk of alienating a non-freshman riding the pine behind them. So yes, it adds to the game.

I'm not looking for quotes, I'm looking for some remote give and take...what Stecker or the other guy did WHEN YOU WERE THERE to say/show that they were ******.

Also, fwiw...I inherited that team which would eventually have 6SR, so I wouldn't do that necessarily. There are almost always going to be 2 guys left out because if you play one starter and one backup, that's 10 players...especially if you use fatigue. If you have more than 10 scholarship players every season, this is almost doomed to happen every season. A no-win situation isn't good for the game as far as I'm concerned...especially when you can't control it completely.

Posted by colonels19 on 8/7/2010 12:31:00 PM (view original):
I'm not looking for quotes, I'm looking for some remote give and take...what Stecker or the other guy did WHEN YOU WERE THERE to say/show that they were ******.

Also, fwiw...I inherited that team which would eventually have 6SR, so I wouldn't do that necessarily. There are almost always going to be 2 guys left out because if you play one starter and one backup, that's 10 players...especially if you use fatigue. If you have more than 10 scholarship players every season, this is almost doomed to happen every season. A no-win situation isn't good for the game as far as I'm concerned...especially when you can't control it completely.

I guess I'm wondering why you want "give-and-take". Is it because you think that they were actually happy (despite one transferring)? Because you think guys don't get unhappy when they're riding the pine? Or just to argue with me?

If it'll make you happy, the basic "give-and-take" with Carl was pretty straightforward -- he flat-out said he was ****** to have lost his job to a freshman, would've left early if he knew this was going to happen, etc.

And no, you won't always have two odd men out, because freshmen don't complain. So if you have even two freshmen (or one freshman and a RS from the season before) you can comfortably go 10 deep without any worry. So your assertion there is just flat-out wrong.

Part of the reason I wanted give and take was because I find it interesting to talk to someone who was "in the business" about lockerroom happenings...one of my majors in college was journalism. And part of the other reason was to prove that you were actually there. The fact that you would decline divulging the give and take might suggest that you're lying...it's just odd that you wouldn't remember that kind of stuff from/for something that you had a great passion for, covering a team that you presumably liked.

And as long as you're trying to fit 12 guys into 10 spots, there's always the possibility of guys griping...which is ridiculous

Posted by colonels19 on 8/7/2010 12:45:00 PM (view original):
Part of the reason I wanted give and take was because I find it interesting to talk to someone who was "in the business" about lockerroom happenings...one of my majors in college was journalism. And part of the other reason was to prove that you were actually there. The fact that you would decline divulging the give and take might suggest that you're lying...it's just odd that you wouldn't remember that kind of stuff from/for something that you had a great passion for, covering a team that you presumably liked.

And as long as you're trying to fit 12 guys into 10 spots, there's always the possibility of guys griping...which is ridiculous

No, if you have even two freshmen, then there is a zero percent chance of it. How do you not understand that? And if you have a soph or junior who rides the pine, damn right there should be a chance he's unhappy about it.

I gave two examples, one of which was a guy who was so ****** about it that he transferred. So I must be a pretty damn good liar then. As I've already explained ad nauseum, any specific details from 14 years ago have long vanished from my memory for something so insignificant. It's like asking me what my buddy and I talked about leaving a movie in 1996. Who would possibly remember the details? Again, for something really significant and important, sure. But not for this. Surely you get that, right?

But let's say for some ridiculous reason you think I'm lying ... unless you still actually think that college players riding the pine don't get ****** off about it, it's still a moot point, and your original premise would still be totally wrong.

Posted by colonels19 on 8/7/2010 11:37:00 AM (view original):
Yeah, and you've read enough of my work to be a good JJE...2 posts...*confetti*

What does how many posts someone has MADE have to do with how many they have READ?  For all you know, COlonels, he put your name in as a search term and spent all night reading your posts.

Posted by colonels19 on 8/7/2010 12:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by daalter on 8/7/2010 11:48:00 AM (view original):

Posted by colonels19 on 8/7/2010 10:27:00 AM (view original):

Posted by daalter on 8/7/2010 10:19:00 AM (view original):
Hell, as long as we're on the subject of Wisconsin rb's, another guy that Dayne eventually pushed out was Aaron Stecker, who was also really ****** about PT and transferred to Western Illinois before eventually making the NFL for about eight seasons.

what was said in either situation...you're still being very vague. If you were there, I want to hear about some back and forth, what was said, etc. You saw some guy sulking in a chair in the lockerroom...nice. I just don't get why you're trying to be vague here. Perhaps you're no longer a sportswriter because you weren't interesting enough...

Interesting comment from a perpetually unemployed hack that can't even hold his own on an internet message board. Good stuff. Truth be told, I stopped writing because I sold out, and now work for a large company that pays me a lot of money. Is that what you wanted to hear? 

And I'm not being remotely vague. I instantly responded back with two first-hand examples that I witnessed with my own eyes. If you think I should have verbatim quotes from 1996/97, that's absurd. But I knew both of those guys pretty well, and they were ****** off. I mean, Stecker transferred to friggin' Western Illinois he was so ****** off about playing time, what else do you need to know? 

Do you actually think that it's uncommon for guys riding the bench to be ****** off about it? I'm assuming that you're just arguing the point to argue with me, and that you can't really be that dumb, but perhaps I'm mistaken.

I actually got a job earlier this week, so hopefully all works out. As far as your life goes...gfy...and by that I mean good for you lol. Perhaps the more intelligent thing is to go where the money is, but I personally will never stop dreaming and I think the money will come eventually, but I could be dead wrong too. Congrats on your life success.

Good, now I get the chance to enlighten you. I'm a detail-oriented guy, thus I want to know what was said, because you saying that Stecker and the other guy were very ****** doesn't do much for me and it doesn't do much for anyone. You can't remotely give me some give and take about what was said? I mean dude, this supposedly seemed like your dream job and you're going to tell me you forgot/don't remember? You'd think that a guy like you would like to tell stories like this, especially to guys like me that want to read/listen...I just find it kind of bizarre that you won't divulge more of what happened...unless you don't precisely know. Also, fwiw, Stecker probably transferred to Western Illinois so he wouldn't have to sit a year, because if you transfer from FBS to FCS, or any divisional switch I think, you don't have to sit a year because of your transfer...so it actually makes sense that he went to WIU.

Perhaps I'm just the most understanding, logical person on earth because if I was on the bench and coach told me why I was on the bench and what I could do to get better or that I would be starting in a few years and that it's nothing personal, just business...I would be pacified. No, I wouldn't be happy sitting the bench, but I would understand, ESPECIALLY if the team was winning and winning a lot. I don't think it's uncommon that guys are ****** about riding the bench, though I don't think it's as common as you're suggesting, and tying it back to my main point, I don't really see how or why this has any place in HD, because to a degree, it's uncontrollable. The only thing this relatively random feature can do is **** people off...I would have to think long and hard about including that in a game of mine, given that nature.

No control?  Not even remotely true.  He complains, you can give him more playing time.  Or not.  You absolutely have control of it.

" I don't really see how or why this has any place in HD, because to a degree, it's uncontrollable. The only thing this relatively random feature can do is **** people off..."


it is COMPLETELY in your control.  play them more OR let them whine and transfer.  you have 2 choices, how is that not in your control.  it is not as random as you are making it.  players in DI EXPECT to play, ALL of them, not just 10 of them.  you need to learn to set up your classes, take walk-ons, use the reshirt, use a rotation, and you will be ok.

YOU ARE IN DI NOW, DEAL WITH IT, OR GO BACK TO DII, OR DIII.  players want to play.  it is not difficult.

since i am sick of this thread, i will spell it out for you.

balance out your classes (3, 3, 3, 3)  you will now have 3 SRs expecting to start and play about 20 minutes a game, you will have 3 juniors with 2 to start and 1 on the bench.  these guys will expect about 15 minutes per game.  you have three sophomores expecting about 10 minutes per game, and 1 (getting to thi point) freshman with no expectations.

if you take one walk-on a year (which you should be doing at a low level DI to give you more recruiting money to after a better recruit, you are now only dealing with 11 players to keep happy.  now, if you redshirt one every year (which you also should be doing at low level DI to get the most out of your best recruit), you are now only dealing with 10 players to keep happy.

5 positions times 40 minutes = 200 minutes to distribute to 10 players.  give the 3 seniors about 25-30 minutes (75-90 total), the juniors about 20-25 (60-75 total for juniors, 135-165 total overall), that will leave you at least 35 minutes for the 3 sophomores and the 1 freshman.

now the next year, you will have 3 SRs, 3 JRs, 1 SO, 5 FR (1 walk-on plus 1 RS gets you to 3 FR with playing time).  you will now have more minutes for the upper classmen.

Posted by arssanguinus on 8/7/2010 2:40:00 PM (view original):

Posted by colonels19 on 8/7/2010 11:37:00 AM (view original):
Yeah, and you've read enough of my work to be a good JJE...2 posts...*confetti*

What does how many posts someone has MADE have to do with how many they have READ?  For all you know, COlonels, he put your name in as a search term and spent all night reading your posts.

I can't think of a worse way to spend a Friday night...

if there is no point to having more than 10 scholarship players, then take 2 walk-ons, use that money to get better quality recruits, and you will solve  two of your issues at once.

"I understand that I would have to compromise my team quality for 2 or however many bitchy players"

taking 2 walk-ons will IMPROVE the quality of your team because you will have better players, AND you will only have to go 2 deep at each position.  two birds (problems) one stone

"it more ridiculously puts users in a pinch more than anything."

uh - no it does not.  many people have learned how to work with the minute guidelines.  in all of my seasons, I have had 2 players complain about playing time.  if you recruit good players, you should not have any problem redshirting one and then working the other into a rotation.