RECRUIT GENERATION Topic

Rails
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I think HDs peak was well before FSS.  I know a lot of you are looking at this from an angle of only ratings and potential with new recruits.  In addition to simply looking at ratings as well as potential, I'm looking at it from an angle of FSS costs, recruiting costs as well as geographic generation of recruits and how sims recruit (and the costs they pay). 

We all know that FSS is vital.  And (even if we pretend cheating by having alias IDs buying FSS in other states doesn't exist,) it doesn't make sense from a cost standpoint to FSS outside a certain radius--which means it doesn't makes sense to recruit outside a certain radius (internationals aside). 

Along with unearned baseline prestige that delivers a double blow to *some* midmajors (prestige and conf. tourney money) and a single blow to some in the Big Six, recruiting is like a casserole with many items mixed together.  Even just one unpleasurable item in the dish, (even though there might be 10 good items) can cause major alienation.  

The fact is, there is huge correlation between the components of recruiting (the need to buy FSS, FSS costs, how and where recruits are generated, how FSS is priced, how sims recruit and the prices they pay).  In my humble opinion, (and in the eyes of WIS) it wasn't a perfect formula even prior to potential (as evident by WIS changing its price on various recruiting initiatives not once, but twice).  Throw in the addition of baseline prestige, FSS, and potential---and it wasn't hard to predict user apathy if those ingredients weren't added and mixed correctly. 

In fact during my more passionate, pre Chief Jospeh days, I recall writing about this in detail.  I haven't had a team in several months and it was several months before that that my apathy level crossed the "retirement" line, but I still hold out hope for a return if the casserole starts tasting better.

Congrats, btw, on a NT OR.
8/6/2010 12:45 AM (edited)
chewchad
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just saying

http://www.whatifsports.com/hd/RecruitProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&rid=1764661
8/7/2010 2:07 AM
4green2
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'this recruit cannot be found'
8/7/2010 7:47 AM
oldresorter
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thx rails

the peak of HD may have started right around the time tark was formed and lasted for a year or two thereafter, I recall going to a meeting that started when tark team signup started, logging on to a computer 35 minutes later, and barely got a team, in other words, the 350 or so teams sold out in a little over a half hour.

I think tarek had a pretty close knit group of friends who played, posted, created the fun on the boards, etc that no longer exists except in small pockets.

anyone who is around oldave - I am lucky enough to have him as a conf mate in tark, used to be a doz or two guys like him making it fun for everyone,

These days much of the posting effort by ind coaches (as well as engine work by CS)  seems focused on making this less fun for everyone - no small wonder things are dropping off.  Oldave is probably coaching his last season in tark as we speak, if he retires the game will take another half step backwards.

With 2 more worlds recruiting this weekend, there becomes less and less chance d1 recruiting is going to get fixed anytime soon - I have 8 d1 teams, most of the coaches corner posting is real negative toward the recruiting change, although I think many will do their best to learn to like it and some do like it, most do not.  I tried real hard to dissuade seble on this course of action during beta testing, at this point, there is little left to do or say other than adjust and accept the inferior product.
8/7/2010 1:40 PM (edited)
jetwildcat
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for some reason OR's post makes me wonder when whatif is going to try and advertise their dynasty games on foxsports.com
8/7/2010 10:35 AM
vandydave
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the peak of HD was before Rails and OR were even blips on the map. no offense guys.
8/7/2010 4:03 PM
vandydave
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Posted by daalter on 8/5/2010 4:43:00 PM (view original):
I remember pretty much the very first day that the new recruits and system came out live, OR and I exchanged sitemails about the obvious effect on low/mid DI teams. Very shortly thereafter, I read the same sentiment from vandydave in the forums, and then probably about half dozen other uber vet users that I communicate with. Can't remember the last time that there was a clear consensus among that group of people that turned out to be incorrect.

And as OR pointed out above, it's telling that many of the people trying to fix this are those with high prestige teams, so it's not like it's a personal agenda. I coach UNC, I know for a fact this is good for me, but I want a set-up that is best of everyone and all of HD.
yeah, the beta testing was so poorly done that i quit looking at it very early on, but it was so painfully evident that the recruit generation change was going to drastically impact mid to low d1, i really dont understand how that went thru as is
8/7/2010 4:07 PM
uglyskunk3
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just did some future scouting of the knight kids and OMG ARE THEY TERRIBLE! last year was bad but this is soooooooo much worse.
8/7/2010 4:07 PM
oldresorter
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Posted by vandydave on 8/7/2010 4:03:00 PM (view original):
the peak of HD was before Rails and OR were even blips on the map. no offense guys.
vandy - I tried to imply the good old days were a long time ago, just a matter of semantics after that, but  I do recall even the most sarcastic vets being shocked at how quickly tark sold out?

I started season 7 or 8 in most worlds, slightly b4 then really becasue my then very young son and I shared a team for a little while after the preacher guy (can't recall his name, but he was a pretty famous coach/ranter of the old era) let a a swearing rant at my son on a CC, I responded at some point rather than let my 12 or 13 year old get ridiculed like that, thought I'd grab a team as long as I was logging on anyhow. 

I also recall being included by some on a blog for the top 5 coaches list that included plumpy and mswilson - who I think were the top 2 coaches of the original era from my recollection, so I have been around pretty long.  Those objecting to calling me a top 5 coach at the time said I would never win at the d1 level with the big boys, they were right, in that you have to win at the d1 level consistently to be a top notch coach IMO, I used that as motivation toward moving on to d1 and proving them wrong.

The game was very different then, much more energized, do you think my point about so many of the coaches being friends with each other and with tarek in that era wrong, or was it right?  I sort of guessed that from the nature of the discussion about meeting at bars  / golf outings / etc ffor debriefing sessions and the like????
8/7/2010 5:29 PM (edited)
vandydave
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i think that point was after the peak, but still full of energy and activity as you say. you are overblowing the breadth of wrigleyfest, which by the way still happens, and is likely the event of TK hanging out with WIS users you are thinking of. the game was very different then.

you're thinking of tdowdy by the way.

and mswilson was overrated.
8/7/2010 6:18 PM
oldresorter
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Posted by vandydave on 8/7/2010 6:19:00 PM (view original):
i think that point was after the peak, but still full of energy and activity as you say. you are overblowing the breadth of wrigleyfest, which by the way still happens, and is likely the event of TK hanging out with WIS users you are thinking of. the game was very different then.

you're thinking of tdowdy by the way.

and mswilson was overrated.
tdowdy - thx for the name - in that era I used an alias and played a season in the freedom conference with alblack and wilson  - the conference was very good and wilson, al, and others were great coaches - the alias I used became fairly well known, ryan75, might have been the first season ever as ryan75 - ryan for bo ryan and 75 was my son's number in hs football.  I thought that little gathering might still be going on, any other users from that group still playing other than yourself?  Who would be your top 5 from the early years?  Plumpy was regarded as #1 if I recall?  And thx for the history lesson - I do appreciate it!!!!!!!
8/7/2010 6:33 PM
girt25
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Posted by vandydave on 8/7/2010 4:03:00 PM (view original):
the peak of HD was before Rails and OR were even blips on the map. no offense guys.
Do you mean the peak of HD as it relates to how active the users were, material on the forums, etc? Or as far as gameplay?

The former you can make a great case, the latter not even a remote chance.
8/7/2010 8:04 PM
chewchad
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Posted by 4green2 on 8/7/2010 7:47:00 AM (view original):
'this recruit cannot be found'
dude had a 1 in ATH....no one would make it to any level of college basketball with a 1 in ATH
8/8/2010 12:02 AM
vandydave
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Posted by girt25 on 8/7/2010 8:04:00 PM (view original):
Posted by vandydave on 8/7/2010 4:03:00 PM (view original):
the peak of HD was before Rails and OR were even blips on the map. no offense guys.
Do you mean the peak of HD as it relates to how active the users were, material on the forums, etc? Or as far as gameplay?

The former you can make a great case, the latter not even a remote chance.

certainly as far as forum activity, and partly as far as gameplay. gameplay really didnt change that much after a certain time other than ath/spd/press getting ridiculously amped up, but feel free to speak in absolutes and rewrite history to your own liking.

8/8/2010 12:51 AM
daalter
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You definitively state, "The peak of HD was before Rails and OR were even blips on the map".

But I'm the one who speaks in absolutes and rewrites history to my liking.

Fascinating.

8/8/2010 1:47 AM
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