RECRUIT GENERATION - Page 14 - Hoops Dynasty

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a-b, almost everyone on the forum has good and bad things to say. There are maybe two people that seem to blindly defend WIS no matter what, and you are one of the two. And the bottom line is that it really damages your credibility.

I coach UNC. On a personal level, pushing WIS to fix this problem is only bad for me. But as I said before, this problem was obvious to me within minutes of seeing the new set-up, and it was just as obvious to a bunch of other DI vets. And now the early returns -- ranging from reports from the front lines of recruiting to RPI/NT teams -- are supporting those conclusions.

8/9/2010 9:38 PM (edited)

a_in_the_b

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.Was going to say something, but not going to bother. Just bowing out of the conversation so you can continue without having to have anyone say anything that might
disagree with you in any way.

I have had plenty of problems, rebounding problems et al. And I haven;t chimed in on those threads because, frankly, I generally don'tlike posting negative and if other people have allready expressed what I think the problem is, I don't chime in. I usually don't chime into a thread just to say "I agree, yeah" I usually feel like chiming in when I have a disagreement with the prevalent opinion and want to express that. IN this case, I just happen to think that its way to early to be proclaiming this a disaster when what we are seeing is not either odl or new but a frankenstien monster's mix that resembles neither. I see several people talk about kneejerk overadjustments. . but I just think people want to make yet another overreaction overadjustment here.

8/9/2010 9:53 PM (edited)

vandydave

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I agree, yeah.

8/9/2010 10:27 PM

girt25

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Semi-related ... I'm doing my intial scouting for DII Rupp, and it's making me want to give up my team (and this is probably the top team in DII Rupp). There is so little improvement potential in so many of these recruits, it's just not even fun. (Again, it's not lower starting ratings, that doesn't bother me in the slightest, it's that there's so little room for improvement.)

I like recruiting as much as anyone I know, and if recruiting continues to look like this ... I won't say I'm gonna leave, because I won't ... but I'll be cutting back.

Seble's done some good things, too, but the new recruiting set-up is a disaster from top-to-bottom.

8/9/2010 10:30 PM

gomiami1972

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girt, you should consider moving to an A+ DIII team. I just completed my recruiting in Knight with my A+ Palm Beach Atlantic and I signed 4 players who have a combined 27 high potential areas , only 4 low potential areas and 17 average. I can mold these players, for the most part, how I want to. I had the same experience with my A+ DIII Colorado College team in Tark.

Hopefully nobody from WIS is reading this thread because DIII is probably the best division to be in right now with the new recruit generation model. If they find out, it'll be changed...

8/10/2010 1:08 AM

chewchad

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Posted by littlegiant0 on 8/9/2010 8:57:00 PM (view original):
I know I am posting way late regarding this topic, but I think (at least in my own mind and conclusion) is the fact this is supposed to be "whatifsports" not real life sports/HD. In my humble opinion, the reason people may want to join this entertainment sports site is due to the fact they want to take their alma mater and try to create a successful dynasty. However, this is not even remotely possible with the new recruit generation (it is killing the mid/low majors and I am saying this with my Big 6 teams). Secondly (and going off topic from this forum), the baseline prestige is a complete joke. It should not be mirrored to real life--when I joined this site I really wanted to build up teams, because again it is named "whatifsports"--it has now been turned into the Big 6 vs. everyone else and it's a shame because this site wants to mirror real life, instead of providing an exciting and entertaining product. Lastly and( again in my humble opinion), do not mirror real life, instead allow all schools to start out with the same prestige and allow each school regardless of conference affiliation or real life school traditions and treat each school the same--based upon individual school success!

That was his first forum post. Perfect.

The big conference schools will always stay occupied because they are obviously bigger names. So they dont need anymore help to make it pretty close to real life. Baseline prestige is non sense.

I love this site. I have been a huge fan for along time and have played many teams. I tend to hope the people in charge love it as much as we do and have the same concept as us. Who knows, maybe 4 seasons into the new system, we may think its cool.

8/10/2010 2:07 AM

seabreeze

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Posted by girt25 on 8/9/2010 10:31:00 PM (view original):
Semi-related ... I'm doing my intial scouting for DII Rupp, and it's making me want to give up my team (and this is probably the top team in DII Rupp). There is so little improvement potential in so many of these recruits, it's just not even fun. (Again, it's not lower starting ratings, that doesn't bother me in the slightest, it's that there's so little room for improvement.)

I like recruiting as much as anyone I know, and if recruiting continues to look like this ... I won't say I'm gonna leave, because I won't ... but I'll be cutting back.

Seble's done some good things, too, but the new recruiting set-up is a disaster from top-to-bottom.

I just had fantastic results recruiting in DII in Wooden, getting three great players, including the #127 center. I could have waited for better dropdowns, but I really liked the guys I had already lined up. They total 21 high potential areas, eight average potential and seven low potential. I could not be more pleased.

But then again, I'm not Henny Penny.

8/10/2010 4:25 AM

daalter

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There are guys like that, no question. I've signed them with both of my DII teams over the last couple recruiting periods. But there are so, so, so few of them. On average, the potentials are a sea of red. From the comparison of guards I did using the final Allen recruiting in the old engine and the first Allen recruiting in the new one, there are more than double the # of low potential categories now.

So, I'm not saying that there are no strong recruits to sign, or that there aren't any players with high potential. That's obviously not the case. But in the new system they are very few-and-far between, and there is simply a tremendous # of low potentials. And yes, that's bad for the game.

(For instance, let's say you ran fb and/or fcp {which I don't} and said, "I'd like to sign a guard with high potential in sp and ath". In the search that I did of pg's and sg's, there were a grand total of two guards that fit this profile -- and one was too highly ranked for any DII team to sign, and the other was a guard with 7 ath and high potential. So ... basically nothing. By comparison, there were 15 guards with low potential in both sp and ath, and another 39 with low potential in one of the two areas. Lots of fun.)

8/10/2010 7:11 AM

seabreeze

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So the press will no longer be magic! Glass half full.

8/10/2010 8:06 AM

girt25

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Posted by seabreeze on 8/10/2010 8:06:00 AM (view original):
So the press will no longer be magic! Glass half full.

Give me a break, cb, hat was just an example (re-read it and remove the press part if that's what you need to do). Besides, the press was no longer magic simply with the engine change, forget about anything related to the recruits. And it's hardly just fcp (or fb) coaches who want fast and/or athletic guards. Those are two of the staples of almost anyone's guards.

You're actually defending the move I described that neutered recruit development across the board and has an overall very negative impact on HD ... so I suppose that yes, your glass of Kool Aid is half full.

8/10/2010 8:14 AM

ardthomp

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Posted by chewchad on 8/10/2010 2:07:00 AM (view original):
Posted by littlegiant0 on 8/9/2010 8:57:00 PM (view original):
I know I am posting way late regarding this topic, but I think (at least in my own mind and conclusion) is the fact this is supposed to be "whatifsports" not real life sports/HD. In my humble opinion, the reason people may want to join this entertainment sports site is due to the fact they want to take their alma mater and try to create a successful dynasty. However, this is not even remotely possible with the new recruit generation (it is killing the mid/low majors and I am saying this with my Big 6 teams). Secondly (and going off topic from this forum), the baseline prestige is a complete joke. It should not be mirrored to real life--when I joined this site I really wanted to build up teams, because again it is named "whatifsports"--it has now been turned into the Big 6 vs. everyone else and it's a shame because this site wants to mirror real life, instead of providing an exciting and entertaining product. Lastly and( again in my humble opinion), do not mirror real life, instead allow all schools to start out with the same prestige and allow each school regardless of conference affiliation or real life school traditions and treat each school the same--based upon individual school success!
That was his first forum post. Perfect.

The big conference schools will always stay occupied because they are obviously bigger names. So they dont need anymore help to make it pretty close to real life. Baseline prestige is non sense.

I love this site. I have been a huge fan for along time and have played many teams. I tend to hope the people in charge love it as much as we do and have the same concept as us. Who knows, maybe 4 seasons into the new system, we may think its cool.

LG, myself, and kelper have grown up together from 6th grade and we are now pushing 30. We decided to join this site because we each live in different parts of the state now and this is a way for the three of us to interact and enjoy not only each other's friendship/competitive nature, but new friendships/competition. We each have two accounts and within the next 3 months when our credits are done, that is 6 less accounts that WIS/HD will be seeing. I hope that WIS really takes the user surveys seriously and corrects the issues they have created. If not, this site will slowly become a ghost town.

8/10/2010 8:34 AM

mcauley

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It seems from reading this thread and from my own experience at each level (DI/II/III), that the quality of recruits at DII and DIII have gone up with the new generation and the gap between the elite and non-elite players at DI has widened. I definitely don't have a problem with the first part (I think it makes the competition at DII and DIII much more entertaining since there are more good players to go around. The number of ranked players recruited by my conference in Tark last season was off the charts. I'm not sure how I feel about the other part. I like the gap between elite players that are likely to leave early and non-elite players, but I think because of the other constructs in WIS (such as more recruiting money for conference post season performance and baseline conference/school prestige) it does make it a lot tougher to compete for the top players. Maybe decreasing the conference post season money at DI from 20k per game to 10-15k per game would balance this out a bit and make it more dependent on your team and not your conference.

Not trying to start a fight, we've already identified the problem. Just trying to come up with a constructive solution.

8/10/2010 8:52 AM

cburton23

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Posted by gomiami1972 on 8/10/2010 1:08:00 AM (view original):
girt, you should consider moving to an A+ DIII team. I just completed my recruiting in Knight with my A+ Palm Beach Atlantic and I signed 4 players who have a combined 27 high potential areas , only 4 low potential areas and 17 average. I can mold these players, for the most part, how I want to. I had the same experience with my A+ DIII Colorado College team in Tark.

Hopefully nobody from WIS is reading this thread because DIII is probably the best division to be in right now with the new recruit generation model. If they find out, it'll be changed...

If girt can't find good recruits in Rupp nobody can. He is probably an A+++ prestige.

That being said, Rupp seems to be worse than the other worlds for some reason. I've had good luck with my oher 2 DII teams, but Rupp is another story alltogether.

8/10/2010 8:58 AM

ardthomp

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Posted by mcauley on 8/10/2010 8:52:00 AM (view original):
It seems from reading this thread and from my own experience at each level (DI/II/III), that the quality of recruits at DII and DIII have gone up with the new generation and the gap between the elite and non-elite players at DI has widened. I definitely don't have a problem with the first part (I think it makes the competition at DII and DIII much more entertaining since there are more good players to go around. The number of ranked players recruited by my conference in Tark last season was off the charts. I'm not sure how I feel about the other part. I like the gap between elite players that are likely to leave early and non-elite players, but I think because of the other constructs in WIS (such as more recruiting money for conference post season performance and baseline conference/school prestige) it does make it a lot tougher to compete for the top players. Maybe decreasing the conference post season money at DI from 20k per game to 10-15k per game would balance this out a bit and make it more dependent on your team and not your conference.

Not trying to start a fight, we've already identified the problem. Just trying to come up with a constructive solution.

If you take down the money, then the little guys that do send maybe 2 schools to the NT aren't rewarded.

8/10/2010 9:09 AM

mcauley

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ardthomp - maybe I'm imaging this wrong, but I think the difference would be bigger for the big conferences. Let's take (hypothetical) Big Conference A vs. Small Conference B. If Big A plays 20 NT games and Small B plays 3, the current system gives 400k to Big A and 60k to Small B. If you cut it to 10k, it goes to 200k vs 30 k while the money per open scholarship stays the same so the difference actually gets smaller.

Is this thinking wrong? (not a rhetorical question)

8/10/2010 9:16 AM

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