One thing I know for sure to be a fact is that there are at least three different coaches who have managed to **** off probably the most respected coach in all of HD, which of course would be oldresorter.  And from what I know of him, that ain't an easy thing to do............

Posted by cbriese on 8/16/2010 12:13:00 AM (view original):
There other common misconception is that this is purely a D1 issue. It's not. The changes have has an effect on the recruits available to DII teams, and in turn, they have likely had an effect on DIII teams also. Nobody has mentioned what effect the changes have had on the competitiveness of DII or DIII. Maybe it is exactly as WIS intended.

The last I looked, DIII and DII coaches pay the same amount per season as D1 coaches. They should, therefore, have the same amount of say in the matter. To denigrate them by saying they've never played in D1, and are therefore unfit to comment on recruit diversity changes, is simply not right.

And I am sure the self-righteous among you will respond about how D1 is more important. But you'll be wrong. And you'll explain that it disproportionately affects low-level D1 teams. But, given the responses here, you can't get more than half of the people who have commented to agree with you. You might say, well, the more informed coaches agree with you. But again, they pay the same amount of money as everyone else.

+10000000

Posted by cbriese on 8/16/2010 12:13:00 AM (view original):
There other common misconception is that this is purely a D1 issue. It's not. The changes have has an effect on the recruits available to DII teams, and in turn, they have likely had an effect on DIII teams also. Nobody has mentioned what effect the changes have had on the competitiveness of DII or DIII. Maybe it is exactly as WIS intended.

The last I looked, DIII and DII coaches pay the same amount per season as D1 coaches. They should, therefore, have the same amount of say in the matter. To denigrate them by saying they've never played in D1, and are therefore unfit to comment on recruit diversity changes, is simply not right.

And I am sure the self-righteous among you will respond about how D1 is more important. But you'll be wrong. And you'll explain that it disproportionately affects low-level D1 teams. But, given the responses here, you can't get more than half of the people who have commented to agree with you. You might say, well, the more informed coaches agree with you. But again, they pay the same amount of money as everyone else.

There are no doubt other implications in DII and/or DIII as a result of these changes, likely both positive and negative. Absolutely agreed.

But the issue that we're dealing with here -- specifically whether the changes at the DI level will be disastrous for non-BCS teams -- is indeed a DI issue, and it's not "denigrating" anyone else to say so.

It has nothing to do with DI being more important. It's just that this particular issue is a DI issue. There are no doubt different issues at the other levels. But quite honestly, this is potentially such a huge issue that it would be a major disservice to try to mix in other basically unrelated items that might be happening at DIII, etc. I'm a well-informed coach, but I have no business weighing in on a DIII question because I just don't know the lay of the land there very well.

dcy, this thread was started by a user who tried to draw attention to himself by spamming all the D1 Rupp coaches corners. He grossly misjudged the idea that everyone in WIS would agree with him. He probably figured he would be hailed as a forward thinker, a voice for the masses. That didn't happen.

There is a great deal of diverse opinion among HD coaches on this matter. While I sincerely respect OR's views, I simply do not agree with all of them [truth be told, there's probably little difference between us on the matter; I just want to exercise more patience]. And that's OK. I am sure that OR is not a yes man, and doesn;t want those around him to be yes men, either.

Posted by moy23 on 8/16/2010 12:25:00 AM (view original):

Posted by girt25 on 8/16/2010 12:08:00 AM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 8/16/2010 12:02:00 AM (view original):

Posted by daalter on 8/15/2010 11:41:00 PM (view original):
Furry, there are some guys out there with good potential. No one is saying that there aren't. I just signed a sf @ Concordia who is high in every category but one. The point is that these guys are few and far between, and that overall, there are a lot more low potentials than before. That's just a fact. I did a sampling in Allen of the last season before the change and the first season after, and there were over 2x as many low potential categories.

And when you couple the fact that there are so many more low potentials with the fact that the caliber of recruits generally available to non-BCS DI teams have gone way, way down, it makes it nearly impossible to compete.

There you go again.... fact fact fact. Clearly I am right. Yada yada yada.

The only fact in the above post is that there are no facts in the above post.

OK, please let me know which parts you disagree with.

-Is it the statement that there are more low potentials than before? If you don't believe me or the numbers I ran in Allen to back it up, just ask seble. He will happily confirm that this is correct.
-Surely you're not arguing with my statement that the caliber of recruits generally available to non-BCS teams is significantly lower than before. That's not even at issue here; the only thing that's being debated is whether it's gone too far.

So do you disagree with either of those two statements? If so, please let me know.

If not, that only leaves my conclusion (that these changes are going to make it way more difficult for low/mid DI teams to compete like they did before), which I'm obviously presenting as my opinion and is the subject of debate in this thread. Let me know if I'm misunderstanding.

Mostly I disagree with the FACT that you used the word "fact" 3 times in that last post when there were no facts at all. A fact is something that is true... I.e. the world is round, 2+2=4. A fact is not daalts best guess.


If I have to pick an issue its that "surely" (again with the all or nothing language) "the caliber of recruits generally available to [BCS] teams is significantly lower than before." It's not just non-bcs.


I notice you haven't said a thing about my rupp post showing at least 7 A prestiges destined for a very tough season. We are killing each other off at that level so bad that all a mid-level school needs to do is fill a roster. My awesome u of I program went 7-20 last season and dropped to an A prestige after 9 straight nt appearances thanks to the new recruiting. Looks like 7 more teams are following in my footsteps.


Look at the whole picture.... not just the mid-majors.

So the "fact" that you took issue with me presenting is that the caliber of recruits is lower for non-BCS teams?

Are you actually suggesting that is not a fact? Seriously? With a straight face? Sober? (I know it's a work day tomorrow, but any moy post @ 11:30 pm has the potential to be a dunken post.) 

I could respond to your Rupp post by saying that (a) I saw plenty of teams swing and miss big time in the old recruiting and (b) I did not see the same thing take place in Allen.

But it seems pretty crazy to jump all over for me for allegedly presenting my opinion as fact, when the two items I presented as facts are exactly that.

Posted by cbriese on 8/16/2010 12:28:00 AM (view original):
dcy, this thread was started by a user who tried to draw attention to himself by spamming all the D1 Rupp coaches corners. He grossly misjudged the idea that everyone in WIS would agree with him. He probably figured he would be hailed as a forward thinker, a voice for the masses. That didn't happen.

There is a great deal of diverse opinion among HD coaches on this matter. While I sincerely respect OR's views, I simply do not agree with all of them [truth be told, there's probably little difference between us on the matter; I just want to exercise more patience]. And that's OK. I am sure that OR is not a yes man, and doesn;t want those around him to be yes men, either.

Huh? Was dcy trying to stir up **** between OR and you?

Posted by cbriese on 8/16/2010 12:28:00 AM (view original):
dcy, this thread was started by a user who tried to draw attention to himself by spamming all the D1 Rupp coaches corners. He grossly misjudged the idea that everyone in WIS would agree with him. He probably figured he would be hailed as a forward thinker, a voice for the masses. That didn't happen.

There is a great deal of diverse opinion among HD coaches on this matter. While I sincerely respect OR's views, I simply do not agree with all of them [truth be told, there's probably little difference between us on the matter; I just want to exercise more patience]. And that's OK. I am sure that OR is not a yes man, and doesn;t want those around him to be yes men, either.

Breezy, for what its worth, I wasn't including you among those coaches.  Just wanted you to know.

Meh. dcy and I go way back. He's a good guy. So is daalter. As Dave Mason says, we just disagree.

Posted by antonsirius on 8/16/2010 12:34:00 AM (view original):

Posted by cbriese on 8/16/2010 12:28:00 AM (view original):
dcy, this thread was started by a user who tried to draw attention to himself by spamming all the D1 Rupp coaches corners. He grossly misjudged the idea that everyone in WIS would agree with him. He probably figured he would be hailed as a forward thinker, a voice for the masses. That didn't happen.

There is a great deal of diverse opinion among HD coaches on this matter. While I sincerely respect OR's views, I simply do not agree with all of them [truth be told, there's probably little difference between us on the matter; I just want to exercise more patience]. And that's OK. I am sure that OR is not a yes man, and doesn;t want those around him to be yes men, either.

Huh? Was dcy trying to stir up **** between OR and you?

Anton, let's not get started again okay?  I've had enough, I surrender, you win.

Just wondering what prompted that explanation. Although I guess I could just go read his blocked posts.

Posted by moy23 on 8/16/2010 12:37:00 AM (view original):
daalts - So if they are facts.... where can I validate them?

Ps... doc says I cant drink for 2 weeks. It's a real *****.

And after that, moderation, my friend. Moderation. You don't have to drink the entire six-pack before the wife gets home.

Breezy and I were in the SEC together for several seasons in Tark (under my emy ID) and were also in the CACC in D2 Rupp for a few seasons if I'm not mistaken.  We also had several nice battles when he was in D2 Tark at UCSD under his other ID and I under this one.

Oddly enough, when he was at Bama and I at Ole Miss, we rarely ran into each other during recruiting.  I've never had a problem with him and consider him to be one of the coaches I respect most in HD.  Just wanted to put that out there.

So called fact#1

-Is it the statement that there are more low potentials than before? If you don't believe me or the numbers I ran in Allen to back it up, just ask seble. He will happily confirm that this is correct.

**** running a small sample is not fact. Just because Obama might be a 51% approval rating from usa today polls does not factually mean Obama has the approval of 51% of all Americans. It's an estimate... not a fact. I will not go ask seble since its a waste of his and my time.

So called fact #2

-Surely you're not arguing with my statement that the caliber of recruits generally available to non-BCS teams is significantly lower than before. That's not even at issue here; the only thing that's being debated is whether it's gone too far.

*****the caliber of recruits went down for bcs schools 'as well'. That was the whole point of the change. Of course they went down for non-bcs but you are presenting half truths. The caliber of recruits is significantly lower for both bcs and non-bcs schools would be a more accurate statement. Now whether its gone too far.... there are no facts to support that- only opinions. I personally would like to see this play out.