August 28 release - engine changes Topic

nachopuzzle
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I would argue that each event within a game is not an independent event within itself. In each game, after competing against another player(s) in different situations throughout the course of a game (being boxed-out, guarded, guarding, etc., etc.) each player begins to determine patterns of behavior displayed by the other team. So, if the opposing pg never boxed me out any shot less than 5 feet from the basket (or any scenario that can be conjured up) then I would begin to notice that and begin to take advantage of it, therefore increasing my chances of an offensive rebound. Same holds true for offense, if I shot 0/8 in the first half, then I would definitely be adjusting my shots (point of release, hand position, timing, etc.) based on my previous experiences; hopefully, increasing my chances of success at future attempts.

I know there are a ton of objections to the scenario I just presented, but anyone who has played the game will have to agree with me in at least some fashion. Before we all freak the f*** out, we should do what we do best: Give it a fair amount of time, access our inner geeks, create neat little spreadsheets, and see what the new numbers do for us. I personally think everything will be just fine. Thanks for the personal feedback seble.    
8/30/2010 6:09 AM
dacj501
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Before we all freak the f*** out, we should do what we do best:
 
I thought freaking the f*** out WAS what we all do best??
8/30/2010 7:57 AM
daalter
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Posted by dacj501 on 8/30/2010 7:57:00 AM (view original):
Before we all freak the f*** out, we should do what we do best:
 
I thought freaking the f*** out WAS what we all do best??
+1
8/30/2010 8:13 AM
fd343ny
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Posted by colonels19 on 8/29/2010 10:38:00 AM (view original):
Posted by mamxet on 8/28/2010 2:12:00 PM (view original):
what does "reduced single game variance" really mean?  does it mean that possessions are no longer independent events and that - for example - if a guy who should hit 80% of his FTs hits 8 in a row that the 9th will not have an 80% chance?

if it doesnt mean that, what could, what does it mean?
Seems to me like it means the game was too random....
might have been or maybe not - 50/50
8/30/2010 8:18 AM
mullycj
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Well under the new engine I just lost to a team by 3 points ....the same exact team and game settingsthat I had won my 31 points a week ago.

So if anyone is afraid that upsets will be eliminated in the new engine, you can be assured they aren't.
8/30/2010 8:30 AM
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hughesjr
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Posted by hitman1979 on 8/30/2010 9:19:00 AM (view original):
Very concerning that seble refused to answer a simple question that OR posed on multiple occasions, an important one for this and possibly other changes.

And hughes, I appreciate your excitement for HD, but enough with the apples/oranges arguments, alright?
hitman, I do not actually have much excitement for HD ... it is a game that I play for entertainment.

What I am trying to point out is that WIS does not owe anyone the explanations that some people are asking for.  I am further showing examples of how ludicrous these questions are.

People act like because they pay a subscription price of $10-$15to play a game that they think they should have complete control of the servers, the code (and any changes), the timing of when things run on the servers, etc.

I am giving examples of other games and/or software in an attempt to show people that there is not any legal obligation for WIS to provide that information, nor is it even the normal for any software company to provide that information.

What is apples to apples is that people pay to play the simulation, not design the simulation.  If you want to program game code, take a computer class or two in college and then apply to a software company for a job ... or join an open source project.  If you want to play a college basketball simulation game, then this is your place.
8/30/2010 9:37 AM
daalter
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That argument is just ludicrous.

First, no one is trying to have complete control of the servers. They are simply trying to get a very basic answer on a significant change. Huge difference.

And the fact is that WIS has a long, sad history of overreacting with changes and not testing them properly, and then not communicating on top of it.

So for people to be wary and be asking very basic questions is perfectly reasonable. I'd be more than a little worried if these questions weren't being asked, and even more concerned if reasonable answers couldn't be provided.

The notion that you wouldn't want WIS to have a shred of accountability is preposterous.
8/30/2010 9:53 AM
nachopuzzle
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Posted by dacj501 on 8/30/2010 7:57:00 AM (view original):
Before we all freak the f*** out, we should do what we do best:
 
I thought freaking the f*** out WAS what we all do best??
Touche', and a tip of the cap.
8/30/2010 10:19 AM
isack24
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Here's the million dollar question for those people who are freaking the f*** out: have you seen anything to make you think this was a noticeable change?

8/30/2010 10:38 AM
oldresorter
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Posted by isack24 on 8/30/2010 10:38:00 AM (view original):

Here's the million dollar question for those people who are freaking the f*** out: have you seen anything to make you think this was a noticeable change?

the use of freaking out is an attempt to marginalize honest discussion - do you guys want to trade quips?  or do you want to talk about the engine?

back to discussion - if anything the engine seems more, not less unstable since the change, that is based on 11 or 12 games the last 2 days of my own, which is hardly a sample size to worry about

a funny math problem for all you guys in love with the recent changes - first we change ratings to make ratings more variable so we have bigger differences in performance, then we make the engine less sensative to variation so we have less variation in performance?  Sort of a +1 + (-1) = zero sort of deal isn't it?  I probably could argue against my own comment and call the two compatible for some reason or another, we all make up this stuff all the time anyhow, but you have to admit, it is sort of a funny pair of changes when viewed in a certain light, is it not?
8/30/2010 10:47 AM
oldresorter
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by the way, anton and I traded a couple of sitemails, turns out I probably agree more with him than not on most things HD, he asked me a great ?, are you mad at me or mad in general, to wit I replied, I am mad in general toward the attitude toward discussion and debate on these boards, he just happened to get caught in the crossfire.  Like many of you, he does not like the complaining about every change, almost identical to how I don't like the complaining about the complaining.

Sort of a conundrum the game finds itself in - would not some of you on both sides of this little debate agree?


8/30/2010 10:53 AM
mullycj
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Variation in ratings and variation in performance are two totaslly different issues/topis.

#1 - variation in ratings would mean there are teams with superior players that will perform better versus weaker opponents

#2 - the change for variation in performance attempts to make extreme randomness does not undu #1 above.

Now I am not defending this current version at all. I have not been happy with the 1st two games under the newst version. But I cannot make a certain judgement yet. I am still in wait and see mode.


8/30/2010 11:10 AM
oldresorter
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Posted by mullycj on 8/30/2010 11:10:00 AM (view original):
Variation in ratings and variation in performance are two totaslly different issues/topis.

#1 - variation in ratings would mean there are teams with superior players that will perform better versus weaker opponents

#2 - the change for variation in performance attempts to make extreme randomness does not undu #1 above.

Now I am not defending this current version at all. I have not been happy with the 1st two games under the newst version. But I cannot make a certain judgement yet. I am still in wait and see mode.


mully exactly why I said I probably could make up a reason why the 2 changes work together, your thought was what I had in mind, but the star system was brought in to make variation in ind performance, the second change was made to reduce it, both POV's can exist at the same time by the way, a less variable star may be almost unbeatable in this game - I sort of doubt it.

Plus right now, the actual reduction in variation appears neglible - while the change to recruit generation at the d1 level has been staggering.
8/30/2010 11:24 AM
isack24
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Posted by oldresorter on 8/30/2010 10:47:00 AM (view original):
Posted by isack24 on 8/30/2010 10:38:00 AM (view original):

Here's the million dollar question for those people who are freaking the f*** out: have you seen anything to make you think this was a noticeable change?

the use of freaking out is an attempt to marginalize honest discussion - do you guys want to trade quips?  or do you want to talk about the engine?

back to discussion - if anything the engine seems more, not less unstable since the change, that is based on 11 or 12 games the last 2 days of my own, which is hardly a sample size to worry about

a funny math problem for all you guys in love with the recent changes - first we change ratings to make ratings more variable so we have bigger differences in performance, then we make the engine less sensative to variation so we have less variation in performance?  Sort of a +1 + (-1) = zero sort of deal isn't it?  I probably could argue against my own comment and call the two compatible for some reason or another, we all make up this stuff all the time anyhow, but you have to admit, it is sort of a funny pair of changes when viewed in a certain light, is it not?
I know that you're a legend and all, but try to chill out.  I wasn't marginalizing anything, only using the funny, albeit exaggerated, term that everyone else was using.

It was a legitimate question, your offended sensitivities notwithstanding.

So, have you (or anyone else) noticed anything to make you think that these changes are noticeable within an individual game?
8/30/2010 11:32 AM
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