Mid-Majors have no shot at competing Topic

jetwildcat
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Posted by ardthomp on 9/1/2010 3:50:00 PM (view original):
Posted by jetwildcat on 9/1/2010 3:14:00 PM (view original):
Posted by elibolender on 9/1/2010 11:34:00 AM (view original):
Maybe it's just me, but I just don't see the point in playing this game if I have to max out in D2 to have fun and can't ever move up to D1 and attempt to compete with the Kentuckys and Dukes of the world.  Call me crazy, but I like coaching at my alma mater and trying to make them a powerhouse.  I just don't think it can happen with the way the cards are stacked against us.  Baseline prestige, recruiting bonus $$$, new recruit generation, etc. are all killing the desire for anyone to take over (or stay at) non Big 6 schools in D1.
making a mid-major a powerhouse SHOULD be hard
A powerhouse, yes.  Consistently competitive, no.  Being rewarded with the same prestige bumps and dumps as Big 6 schools would help this out.  It is wildly out of balance.

If this recruit generation was to reflect more of real life, then they really need to go look at what is going on in real life.  Butler is now competing for the same players as UNC, Duke, Purdue, and Indiana (not a powerhouse now, but a strong tradition).  That isn't happening in any way, shape, or form on here.  Successful mid-majors are having to hope a top-tier player slips through the cracks so they don't have to wait for their team to be mostly upperclassmen to achieve.
i don't see butler competing for recruits yet
9/1/2010 5:56 PM
g0at
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Hang on, let me find my standard post on this that I have been using :p
9/1/2010 6:06 PM
soupman78734
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Getting people drafted from your mid-major program should be HUGE for prestige. I didn't see much happen at all for me.
9/1/2010 6:09 PM
tkimble
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Posted by jetwildcat on 9/1/2010 5:56:00 PM (view original):
Posted by ardthomp on 9/1/2010 3:50:00 PM (view original):
Posted by jetwildcat on 9/1/2010 3:14:00 PM (view original):
Posted by elibolender on 9/1/2010 11:34:00 AM (view original):
Maybe it's just me, but I just don't see the point in playing this game if I have to max out in D2 to have fun and can't ever move up to D1 and attempt to compete with the Kentuckys and Dukes of the world.  Call me crazy, but I like coaching at my alma mater and trying to make them a powerhouse.  I just don't think it can happen with the way the cards are stacked against us.  Baseline prestige, recruiting bonus $$$, new recruit generation, etc. are all killing the desire for anyone to take over (or stay at) non Big 6 schools in D1.
making a mid-major a powerhouse SHOULD be hard
A powerhouse, yes.  Consistently competitive, no.  Being rewarded with the same prestige bumps and dumps as Big 6 schools would help this out.  It is wildly out of balance.

If this recruit generation was to reflect more of real life, then they really need to go look at what is going on in real life.  Butler is now competing for the same players as UNC, Duke, Purdue, and Indiana (not a powerhouse now, but a strong tradition).  That isn't happening in any way, shape, or form on here.  Successful mid-majors are having to hope a top-tier player slips through the cracks so they don't have to wait for their team to be mostly upperclassmen to achieve.
i don't see butler competing for recruits yet
According to ESPN for their 2011 class they haven't signed any big time recruits (they signed PF #19, but the best of the other schools he was considering was BC), but they have elite guys considering them.  Cody Zeller is the #4 Center and he's considering Indiana, UNC, and Butler.  The #3 Center, Michael Chandler is also considering them along with UCONN, Kentucky, Xavier, and Indiana.  Both guys are from Indiana.  So Butler is competing for elite local recruits just like they would be in HD.
9/1/2010 6:27 PM
g0at
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Agreed that it's not recruiting that is broken. It's just the lack of talent in the GENERATION of new recruits that I have an issue with. And yes, BCS schools are affected, just not the UNC's and Dukes :p

Just reposting from another similiar thread, because I am fairly fed up after the last few months of fiascos (replaying games, letting worlds roll over repeatedly and multiple times, other trivial things that I am sure bothered me but have been forgotten because the new recruit generation tops them all)...It seems for every step forward with this game, it takes two steps back...that's regression, not progression...

It also depends on how populated a world is...trying to remain competitve in the ACC in Knight at Georgia Tech has gotten to be impossible for me at the moment with the changes to recruit generation...if I get involved in a high end battle it's costing at least 100K plus promises to land any guy of enough quality to make a difference (even then it's no guarantee). I can't even land SR transfers and local "role' players like I once did, since the talent level is so low now THOSE guys are going for 10k to 20k.

While recruiting battles are interesting, and the decision making process is interesting...being eviscerated like a bleeding seal in shark infested waters two years in a row is not so much :(

I've pretty much resigned myself to taking on two walk-ons a year, plus two formerly D2 quality players for four years, and TRYING to get 8 decent enough players to hopefully win 4 to 6 ACC games, and with these new recruits that's probably the best I can even hope for looking forward.

Sure, I could drop to D2 and probably dominate but...I used to love trying to compete in the ACC, NOW it's I "like" trying to win 4 to 6 ACC games...when that gets old I will just drop the team (like I probably should have done after that replaying games fiasco) and try and find another basketball sim :p


While I enjoy "realism" in my games, this has gotten to the point where "realism" is trumping fun and at the end of the day...GAMES SHOULD BE FUN :)


Right now am kicking myself in the behind for still caring and not just moving on like I should have months ago.

So yes, please find some middle ground with the generation of new recruits, there are just not enough recruits to go around for the lower BCS and mid-majors to even remain CLOSE to competitive. And AGAIN, this only applies to D1...D2 and D3 seem fine.

Seble, please go read the ACC Knight CC's and you will see the frustation and apathy this game has become at D1. Tanner committed 25 recruiting infractions at Duke, Lostmyth didn't even change his distribution from last year at UNC until I commented about his PG taking most of his shots and averaging 30 points a game. Others just fed up and wondering what the hell is going on. I'm at the point of deciding whether it would be more fun to top Tanner's 25 violations, or blow my recruiting dollars and field a roster of all walk-on's!
9/1/2010 6:34 PM
gillispie
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honestly with so few elite recruits, i don't see the teams outside the top 25 in the country really being very good. i think it is MUCH harder than previous for a mid major to be a top 5 or even top 10 team, but to make the tournament a couple times in a row, might have actually gotten easier.
9/1/2010 6:38 PM
paul0613
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This is "What IF Sports" not "Real Life Sports"  This would be a much better "game" if it were like NCAA 2010 and  could take any team I want... ANY and win every game because I am the best coach and recruiter. 

Lose baseline prestige all together and prestige caps and lets have a free for all video game!
9/1/2010 8:15 PM
jetwildcat
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Posted by paul0613 on 9/1/2010 8:15:00 PM (view original):
This is "What IF Sports" not "Real Life Sports"  This would be a much better "game" if it were like NCAA 2010 and  could take any team I want... ANY and win every game because I am the best coach and recruiter. 

Lose baseline prestige all together and prestige caps and lets have a free for all video game!
i thought you were sarcastic at first but i'm not so sure...
9/1/2010 8:33 PM
antonsirius
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I just took over a C prestige Villanova squad in Smith. They've made the postseason exactly once in the last 25 seasons (a 2nd round NT exit eight or nine seasons ago). They won three games last season.

(If you want to argue that the school is really Big 6 and not mid-major, and that recruiting would be completely different if I were at a C prestige Temple instead, I guess you can try. Yes, down the road I'll get a bigger prestige boost from my conference-mates, and more recruiting cash each season. But right now, Villanova's in the toilet.)

After one season of recruiting... I'm still not really seeing a big problem. Sorry. Looking around at the way recruiting went (signings just started) there were multiple players I had my eye on who will be contributors to successful programs down the road, that I probably could have landed had I made them a priority.

Will it be hella tough to build 'Nova back up to respectability? Probably. But I haven't seen anything in the new recruiting conditions to indicate to me that it's futile to try.
9/1/2010 8:49 PM
paul0613
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Posted by jetwildcat on 9/1/2010 8:33:00 PM (view original):
Posted by paul0613 on 9/1/2010 8:15:00 PM (view original):
This is "What IF Sports" not "Real Life Sports"  This would be a much better "game" if it were like NCAA 2010 and  could take any team I want... ANY and win every game because I am the best coach and recruiter. 

Lose baseline prestige all together and prestige caps and lets have a free for all video game!
i thought you were sarcastic at first but i'm not so sure...
Not Kidding, please make this a video game
9/1/2010 9:06 PM
ardthomp
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Posted by antonsirius on 9/1/2010 8:50:00 PM (view original):
I just took over a C prestige Villanova squad in Smith. They've made the postseason exactly once in the last 25 seasons (a 2nd round NT exit eight or nine seasons ago). They won three games last season.

(If you want to argue that the school is really Big 6 and not mid-major, and that recruiting would be completely different if I were at a C prestige Temple instead, I guess you can try. Yes, down the road I'll get a bigger prestige boost from my conference-mates, and more recruiting cash each season. But right now, Villanova's in the toilet.)

After one season of recruiting... I'm still not really seeing a big problem. Sorry. Looking around at the way recruiting went (signings just started) there were multiple players I had my eye on who will be contributors to successful programs down the road, that I probably could have landed had I made them a priority.

Will it be hella tough to build 'Nova back up to respectability? Probably. But I haven't seen anything in the new recruiting conditions to indicate to me that it's futile to try.
One post season appearance in 25 seasons and still a C prestige!  Gotta love the f**ked up baseline prestige.
9/1/2010 9:13 PM
paul0613
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Posted by ardthomp on 9/1/2010 9:13:00 PM (view original):
Posted by antonsirius on 9/1/2010 8:50:00 PM (view original):
I just took over a C prestige Villanova squad in Smith. They've made the postseason exactly once in the last 25 seasons (a 2nd round NT exit eight or nine seasons ago). They won three games last season.

(If you want to argue that the school is really Big 6 and not mid-major, and that recruiting would be completely different if I were at a C prestige Temple instead, I guess you can try. Yes, down the road I'll get a bigger prestige boost from my conference-mates, and more recruiting cash each season. But right now, Villanova's in the toilet.)

After one season of recruiting... I'm still not really seeing a big problem. Sorry. Looking around at the way recruiting went (signings just started) there were multiple players I had my eye on who will be contributors to successful programs down the road, that I probably could have landed had I made them a priority.

Will it be hella tough to build 'Nova back up to respectability? Probably. But I haven't seen anything in the new recruiting conditions to indicate to me that it's futile to try.
One post season appearance in 25 seasons and still a C prestige!  Gotta love the f**ked up baseline prestige.
+1 bazillion
9/1/2010 9:35 PM
Rails
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Posted by jetwildcat on 9/1/2010 5:56:00 PM (view original):
Posted by ardthomp on 9/1/2010 3:50:00 PM (view original):
Posted by jetwildcat on 9/1/2010 3:14:00 PM (view original):
Posted by elibolender on 9/1/2010 11:34:00 AM (view original):
Maybe it's just me, but I just don't see the point in playing this game if I have to max out in D2 to have fun and can't ever move up to D1 and attempt to compete with the Kentuckys and Dukes of the world.  Call me crazy, but I like coaching at my alma mater and trying to make them a powerhouse.  I just don't think it can happen with the way the cards are stacked against us.  Baseline prestige, recruiting bonus $$$, new recruit generation, etc. are all killing the desire for anyone to take over (or stay at) non Big 6 schools in D1.
making a mid-major a powerhouse SHOULD be hard
A powerhouse, yes.  Consistently competitive, no.  Being rewarded with the same prestige bumps and dumps as Big 6 schools would help this out.  It is wildly out of balance.

If this recruit generation was to reflect more of real life, then they really need to go look at what is going on in real life.  Butler is now competing for the same players as UNC, Duke, Purdue, and Indiana (not a powerhouse now, but a strong tradition).  That isn't happening in any way, shape, or form on here.  Successful mid-majors are having to hope a top-tier player slips through the cracks so they don't have to wait for their team to be mostly upperclassmen to achieve.
i don't see butler competing for recruits yet

Memphis was powerhouse and then some.  Cincinnati was too before they went Big Easy so don't be so easy to dismiss the ability to be a powerhouse.  This is What if, not as is sports.  And agreed on the baseline.  Many of us have argued that for 4 years.  It's "How it was 2004 sports."  What fun!  Nothing is more frustrating than outperforming another team over the course of 4-6 years and having a lower prestige.  Nothing is more frustrating than reaching 4 consecutive Sweet 16s and then missing the NT and dropping lower than a team that has accomplished the same 4 S16s and a miss but who stays at their same level of prestige.  Had I known about prestige limitations, I doubt I would have been fired up to even join a game called "What if."

9/1/2010 9:44 PM (edited)
gomiami1972
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Yup, and that's one of the main problems.  Villanova should be a D- prestige with that kind of history...but NO, it's a Big East school.  Let's artificially prop them up so that we don't **** off the Villanova fans that may want to try Hoops Dynasty.  What a joke.
9/1/2010 9:40 PM
professor17
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Posted by gomiami1972 on 9/1/2010 9:40:00 PM (view original):
Yup, and that's one of the main problems.  Villanova should be a D- prestige with that kind of history...but NO, it's a Big East school.  Let's artificially prop them up so that we don't **** off the Villanova fans that may want to try Hoops Dynasty.  What a joke.
The concept of "What If" doesn't mean you dispense with reality completely. You still have to maintain some semblance to real life college basketball. That means it should be significantly more difficult to win at low-level and mid-level schools than at the major schools. That creates different levels of challenge in the game, and allows for climbing up the job ladder. Baseline prestige attempts to account for the fact that the major conference schools have far better TV exposure, substantially greater athletic department budgets, more extensive booster/alumni networks and better practice and game facilities, all of which make them more attractive than lower level schools, even if their recent history has not been stellar. It will always be easier to resurrect a dormant BCS program than some low-level program. They have inherent structural advantages due to their conference affiliation and that's what baseline prestige is trying to account for.

I think the solution to keeping the non-BCS schools reasonably competitive to fill the gaps between the elite recruits and the next tier of recruits a little better, so that there are more "very good" players available. Not to eliminate baseline prestige.

9/1/2010 10:33 PM (edited)
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