OK, I put in a pipe dream ticket asking CS how many HVs equal one CV.  They wouldn't tell me.

I don't understand why they want to keep this part of the game secret.  I understand keeping the game engine formulas secret, but this particular piece of information is not going to cause the game to degenerate into "spreadsheets and formulas."

So, I am interested in what popular opinion is.  In your eyes, does keeping the relative value of HV to CV secret improve the game, detract from the game or have no impact?

I'm glad it's kept secret.  I'd like recruiting to stay a game of limited information.

It would be horrible if they spoon fed something like this.

Yeah, if this was public information than there would be no point of having both hv and cv in the game, at least past D3.

has to be secret

Posted by dahsdebater on 9/7/2010 11:00:00 PM (view original):
I think the veterans only want it to be a secret because they feel they have more insight into it than novices and think they can use it as an advantage.  I see no reason it would hurt the game to make that information known.

Sigh.

I hate to break it to you, but 98% of battles take place at DI, where it's vet vs. vet. There are no secrets in those battles, no vets taking advantage of rookies. And there's no hidden agenda here. Not only is what you're saying off base, it doesn't hold up to logic or the realities of HD.

Simply put, spoon feeding information like that removes significant strategic aspects from the game.

So your definition of strategy is guesswork?  If you're new to D1 and don't have a large number of battles to analyze, you don't have the data to calculate the odds.  So maybe these novices aren't the same as the novices in D3, but they're still novices to battling.  You also need friends or aliases to get the kind of comparative data to really get a good idea of the ratio.

ratio is 5:2. You could just ask the vets on the board, you'll usually get your answer that way...

Posted by dahsdebater on 9/8/2010 1:07:00 AM (view original):
So your definition of strategy is guesswork?  If you're new to D1 and don't have a large number of battles to analyze, you don't have the data to calculate the odds.  So maybe these novices aren't the same as the novices in D3, but they're still novices to battling.  You also need friends or aliases to get the kind of comparative data to really get a good idea of the ratio.

In my time playing HD, I've spent approximately 0 minutes trying to to figure out the ratio. I think it's somewhere between 2 to 2.5 to 1 based on comments I see from coaches I respect. I don't think knowing anything more than that helps with recruiting. I honestly can't remember the last time I lost a recruiting battle, and I haven't developed it any further.

To spoon feed it in the way you'd like would just make everything glaringly obvious -- everyone would know exactly what to do at all times, with nothing to figure out for yourself. Figuring out some of the details and carving your own strategy is a lot of what makes makes HD interesting.

It would be stupid for them to give the exact ratio.  Its part of the game to figure it out and pass on information.  Most vets have no problem helping out.

I dont know what the exact ratio is, but I'm convinced it is in the range described - and I doubt that an exact answer would change what I do - for better or worse, winning or losing battles. 

Posted by dahsdebater on 9/8/2010 1:07:00 AM (view original):
So your definition of strategy is guesswork?  If you're new to D1 and don't have a large number of battles to analyze, you don't have the data to calculate the odds.  So maybe these novices aren't the same as the novices in D3, but they're still novices to battling.  You also need friends or aliases to get the kind of comparative data to really get a good idea of the ratio.

i wouldnt call it guesswork...yeah, you need to do the whatif "research" to figure it out most likely. how you interpret or utilize this research is where strategy comes in. as in, do you trust the 2.5 ratio? is a HV/CV worth it on any given occasion?

Yeah it is somewhere in there.  No one knows for certain.  Every Lostmyth or Rails or any of the all time greats don't know.  They are probably more knowledgable than me, but Everyone knows it is between 2 and 2.67 I'd say, and beyond that, you can analyze battes, search forums for vets opinions or just go with 2.33 and say, screw it, I am pretty freaking close here, and that is good enough for me.

I personally have gone with the latter.  I use 2.33:1 , which pretty much means HV until you hit 360 miles.  If you think its more like 2.5:1, then use CV's at 210+ miles. 

Really there is only 1 strategic question here, and that is what to use between 200 and 350 miles.  0-200 is HV 360+ is CV.

If you want to be even more dodgy about it, just use 50:50 in that gap and you'll do fine.

agree w everything said.

to me, the #1 reason not to give the HV:CV ratio is because in the great recruiting equation, there are often only 2 unknowns - HV:CV ratio, and prestige value. so even if we know enough to know to use HVs or CVs, it adds a lot of mystery to the prestige equation. this has obviously worked well, when you have great coaches all across the board on their belief in the value of prestige. i know that even with HV:CV ratio you still don't know exact range of prestige, but it definitely serves to keep things a secret.

for about 2 years, my philosophy on what i was willing to share with other coaches has been, i would share anything and everything, except my guess on HV:CV and prestige value in d1. so i am pretty happy that CS is not giving those numbers out either.