Wisefella is a classless punk Topic

mini31
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I'm at UConn in this conference. I don't have a problem with what he did. He probably could have handled it differently but he took this route. He did what he had to do to try to make a statement.
10/31/2010 10:36 PM
emy1013
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Posted by mini31 on 10/31/2010 10:36:00 PM (view original):
I'm at UConn in this conference. I don't have a problem with what he did. He probably could have handled it differently but he took this route. He did what he had to do to try to make a statement.
That's now two conference mates who don't care and none (so far) who do.

10/31/2010 11:01 PM (edited)
zags27
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Wow, I can leave the game in peace now
.
I have actually seen a forum rant thread in which Fuzzy was the voice of reason.

The guy paid his money... I guess he can quit anyway he wants. 

One guy can't kill anything but one team.

and Dan, have you quit taking your medicine again?
10/31/2010 11:40 PM
colonels19
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Posted by hughesjr on 10/31/2010 6:56:00 PM (view original):

Roster Dumping

Dumping an entire roster to the waiver wire directly undermines the competitiveness of the league and reduces league strength. If you choose to discontinue play please make your roster as competitive as possible and refrain from accessing the team or league. Owners found to have dumped their roster will be warned and/or kicked out of the game completely.

 

If we're going by the letter of the law here...he didn't dump his "entire" roster...

Oh and by the way...is this actually an HD rule or the NBA sim?  Dumping...to the waiver wire? hmmmmm
11/1/2010 1:15 AM (edited)
colonels19
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Posted by daalter on 10/31/2010 7:11:00 PM (view original):
Posted by colonels19 on 10/31/2010 6:52:00 PM (view original):
What difference does it make how it was come upon?  You guys are really making a mountain out of a molehill.  It's funny that all of you think that wisefella is being selfish, but y'all are being equally as selfish, wanting him to keep playing/trying for the sake of YOUR good and/or YOUR conference good...what makes your selfishness more valuable/appropo?

And dalter, again, have you sent a ticket about this matter or not?
How dense are you? No one is saying that he has to keep playing. Further, him continuing to play doesn't help me, or anyone else posting here. So no, it's not selfishness on the part of anyone who is expressing their disdain for how he's acted. Your attempt at logic there is so twisted, I can hardly wrap my head around it.

Not to mention the small fact that what he's done is clearly against the rules.

I couldn't be less surprised that you're advocating something that is 100% selfish and shady.

So....ummmm....did you send a ticket or not Mr. High and Mighty?

Why should wisefella be loyal/take the high road/etc. to a game/company that he feels screwed by?  What sense does that make?

Again, the "Because I think he should" argument seems to be your best argument against what he did, and that's not saying much.

11/1/2010 1:19 AM (edited)
colonels19
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Posted by angmar on 10/31/2010 8:51:00 PM (view original):

Nice response.  Stings a bit when the tables get turned on you, huh?  You thought you had a gold medal line earlier about "proving your lack of ethics", yet it backfired on you because someone remembered that you had to confirm yourself as a liar in front of everyone, and the best response you can come up with is "Yawn"?  Says a whole lot right there.  Get back to us when the bruised ego gets better, huh?

As far as sticking to an argument, what point is there to argue?  You either agree or disagree with what he did.  Sounds like an opinion to me and I've already stated my position on the matter.

I've come to respect arss/a in the b a bit...I still think he's a very poor debater...no accountability.  He's very easy to defeat and always insists that he isn't defeated...clings to minor/miniscule arguments/details to make it seem like he's still "in the game"
11/1/2010 1:11 AM
rednu
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Posted by colonels19 on 10/31/2010 6:03:00 PM (view original):
Posted by rednu on 10/31/2010 5:46:00 PM (view original):
Posted by colonels19 on 10/31/2010 5:19:00 PM (view original):
Posted by girt25 on 10/31/2010 12:00:00 PM (view original):
Posted by colonels19 on 10/31/2010 11:14:00 AM (view original):
If this is his way to bite back at WIS for a subpar hiring logic, then I don't see this as a bad thing.  How else is he going to get back at WIS?  He's just to grin and bear it just because it's more convenient for the rest of you?  How effing selfish are you guys.  Get screwed like this guy did, then get back to me, until then, let the man make his stand and deal with it as he sees it to be appropriate.  It's funny how high and mighty you all get when something eventually doesn't go your way via another user.

I don't really care what the TOS says, he paid for the seasons, it's his team and as far as I'm concerned, he can do whatever the hell he wants with it.  If you're ****** about conference RPI, tough, you should back your peer in his stance against the hiring logic policy instead of turning your back on him.
Colonels, do you not get the fact that these actions are NOT getting back at WIS. Not hurting them at all. Only hurting his conference mates.

If he was doing something that actually hurt WIS and didn't hurt his conference mates, then even though it might still be wrong or a clear violation of the TOS, at least it would be a two-sided issue. This is clear as day -- not only is he wrong, but the only people he's screwing are those in his conference.
Ok, but then how else does he get back at WIS/the game for this happening?  I'd love to hear the instead of.  Again, your solution just seems to be that he should bend over and continue to take it in the ***, and that just because it didn't happen to you, that he shouldn't have done it.  You're being incredibly selfish here...again, step in the man's shoes, and get back to me...
Exactly how does his action "get back at WIS"? Maybe you can explain that to me, because from where I'm sitting, what he's doing has no negative impact on WIS. 

Does it cost the company money? No...they've already got his money, and from at least one post he's thinking of adding money to keep doing it. So if anything, not only is he not "getting back at" he's actually going to be financially PROMOTING the behavior that has him flipping out in more flavors than Baskin Robbins has ice cream in the first place. 

Is he driving other users away? Doesn't look like it...he might force them out of the conference, but I doubt what he's going to do is likely to prompt anyone to quit the game, so he's not having a ripple effect of knocking other users out of the game. Again, no impact to WIS. 

As for real ways he might "get back at WIS"...let's stop and think here...

1. Post to every and any basketball/sim-game forum out there...point out the shortcomings of the hiring logic, recruit generation or whatever other issues he may have. It's not like this is the only game in town. If fresh blood suddenly stops trickling in, people engaged in a profit-driven business tend to start noticing. We already know that most of the traffic to WIS is via word-of-mouth because they don't advertise their products for a darn...if the word-of-mouth reports start sounding sour, that'll have an impact. 

2. Organize an on-site protest...evidently there are a few other people here that agree. Organize a walk-out of like-minded folks. Everyone demand refunds and be specific about why. If it creates enough of an impact, folks notice. If it's really the problem he thinks it is, getting other people to join the cause shouldn't be a problem.

3. Boycott all other WIS products (if he's in any)...doesn't make any sense to demand a refund from here if you're just turning around and using that money to get Gridiron or Hardball dynasty seasons instead...they're still getting their money. 

I'm sure there are other ways...I've just listed three that crossed my mind in 60 seconds. I bet with the brilliant minds on here there's plenty of other methods that could be employed. It's really not hard to target your actions against the guilty parties rather than behaving like the schoolyard bully who's taking the ball and going home because he's not allowed to pitch. 
All 3 of your suggestions EASILY pale in comparison to what he did, because #1 doesn't get anything done, and #2 and #3 are virtually impossible to pull off, so why not do the most forceful/powerful thing you can do in this instance and release your 5 best players...if that isn't the ultimate eff you/this, regardless of if it was done to WIS or not, then I don't know what the hell is.  At the very least, you have to admire/respect the guy for standing up for principle and his own self worth...that's what's being missed here.

It's pretty easy to sit back and say what you would do in this situation when you don't actually have to go through it.  All you guys are are nothing more than holier than thou armchair QBs...again, step into the man's shoes, and get back to me...
They "EASILY pale" in comparison to what he did? Again, I ask, what EXACTLY did he do that's going to impact WIS in the slightest? At least the options I gave have a chance of an impact...what he's done hurts the company in no way whatsoever and AT BEST impacts the enjoyment of other customers toward the product. And even that impact can be debated. A few keystrokes on Customer Service's part and what he's done is a figment of the past. His actions have no more impact on the company than this thread. 

I'm sorry if No. 2 and No. 3 on my list above are virtually impossible to pull off -- good protests take work and organization. Surely someone who believes deeply enough in their cause could turn some of that conviction into effort though. I mean, if its really such a major problem, then there should be folks lined up and beating down the door to join in. 

I will give you credit though Colonels, you hit the nail on the head when you describe his action as the "ultimate eff you/this" because that's pretty much all it is...its an infantile gesture of frustration akin to a flashed middle finger that neither brings about change nor contributes anything useful into the proceedings. For that reason, we'll simply have to agree to disagree as to whether that behavior is deserving of admiration. 

The whole armchair quarterback thing is a cop out, though -- we make behavior decisions every day based on first-time experiences. Reflection on other life experiences and a sound moral framework is more than enough usually to indicate a favored course of action. This really isn't that complex a situation. Pulling the cyber equivalent of knocking over the game board because a ruling doesn't go your way or because you don't get what you want -- do you REALLY think its necessary to be the fourth-winningest coach in this game to honestly figure out whether or not there was a better way to go about things? Seriously?
11/1/2010 1:22 AM
rednu
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Posted by emy1013 on 10/31/2010 9:58:00 PM (view original):
Question for the crowd (and forget for a minute what Wise did).  How come no one ever throws a fit when a coach/team sacrifices a season/season and a half switching their Offense or Defense?  At the very basic level, the same thing is happening, the coach is throwing in the towel for a whole season.  Yet, no one EVER complains when this happens.  Why?

And what if, after a season, said coach decides he doesn't like the new O or D and switches back to the original O and D and wastes another season.  No one would say a word.  Why not?  Curious......
For the sake of giving you an answer -- intent.

Presumably, said coach is sacrificing that season for the purpose of building for the future, sacrificing the short term for the sake of the program's growth. That would seem to differ from the present case because here, no "growth" appears intended (I know you said to forget for a minute, but I figure I'll head off the obvious follow-up question). 

For the same reason, if a switch back occurs, its still presumably being done with an intent to improve the situation (maybe not the most efficient execution, but that's the fun of a strategy game, we each get to craft our own strategies, part of which ultimately is trial and error). Similarly, I squawk to high heaven about free HD teams that sign nine walkons because their owner used their balance to fund the search for recruits for another program but won't complain when a newbie coach doesn't click Division I off his player search filter and blows his wad trying to get D-I recruits for a D-III program and winds up with nine walkons instead as a result. The intent was there, the execution was lacking. 
11/1/2010 1:33 AM
colonels19
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Again though, I guess to back emy's point...who exactly is hurting because of wisefella's "petulance"?  Maybe 11 humans in the conference, 2 of which have already said that it's no big deal?  It's a free win on your schedule now, hell I'll take that any day.  If you're trying to somehow convince me that "negatively impacting" at most 8% of any team's schedule is a big deal, then you're simply barking up the wrong tree...the things you guys want to nail to the cross...

At what point do you blame the company and the principles that caused this behavior, whether you think it's warranted or not?

11/1/2010 2:01 AM
dahsdebater
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At no point do I blame WiS for his behavior...  I've seen easily 2 dozen threads started by users upset with the hiring logic over the past 6 or 8 months and nobody else has decided to take out their frustration on their teams and their conference mates...  So clearly failing to be hired in a situation in which you deserve to be does not necessitate ridiculous actions.
11/1/2010 2:33 AM
coach_billyg
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i do think this is kind of a whack move. if nothing else, it messes up the team for the future coach. I just don't see how this is good for anybody, and i don't think its the way the game should be played. i understand he is ****** at WIS and have no qualms with that, but i do find it to be somewhat discourteous to his fellow coaches - which by and large are a pretty good group.

that said, i also wouldn't crucify the guy for it!!
11/1/2010 3:29 AM
hughesjr
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Posted by emy1013 on 10/31/2010 9:58:00 PM (view original):
Question for the crowd (and forget for a minute what Wise did).  How come no one ever throws a fit when a coach/team sacrifices a season/season and a half switching their Offense or Defense?  At the very basic level, the same thing is happening, the coach is throwing in the towel for a whole season.  Yet, no one EVER complains when this happens.  Why?

And what if, after a season, said coach decides he doesn't like the new O or D and switches back to the original O and D and wastes another season.  No one would say a word.  Why not?  Curious......
Because that is coaching, not roster dumping.  The issue here is that the guy is purposely cutting players to purposely screw over the next coach.  It is the worse act of sportsmanship and a totally self-centered, cry-baby move.  Furthermore it is not allowed by the rules.

If you decide you would rather run Man-to-Man instead of Full Court Press and you start recruiting that way and shift your practice minutes ... that is what the game is about.

If you cut all your star players to demolish your team before you quit, well that is just an a$$hat move.
11/1/2010 6:12 AM
twjared
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On wise's conference board:

From conference mate goodytimes: "I agree you got screwed man, and its not really the people in the forums business, but not sure why you are going about getting back at WIS this way, just seems like it is going to hurt us Big East coaches more than them".

From conference mate thorknight: " You will wind up hurting the conference more at least in the short term than WIS".

To be fair, both also commented that they are not mad at him because he has given the conference a lot of good years. That's probably what I would say, too, in order to be PC and back a long-time conference mate. But the bottom line is, they both commented to him on how it's going to hurt the conference, and that speaks volumes.
11/1/2010 6:30 AM
hughesjr
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Posted by colonels19 on 11/1/2010 2:01:00 AM (view original):

Again though, I guess to back emy's point...who exactly is hurting because of wisefella's "petulance"?  Maybe 11 humans in the conference, 2 of which have already said that it's no big deal?  It's a free win on your schedule now, hell I'll take that any day.  If you're trying to somehow convince me that "negatively impacting" at most 8% of any team's schedule is a big deal, then you're simply barking up the wrong tree...the things you guys want to nail to the cross...

At what point do you blame the company and the principles that caused this behavior, whether you think it's warranted or not?

Everyone playing the game gets hurt.  If people get away with this kind of bullsh1t, then everyone who feels wronged decides to do it.

This guy has been playing for years (since 2001).  He has complained in the past about this policy, so he knows it exists.  He was 17-13 and 17-12 in the last 2 seasons.  He knows the last 2 seasons mean more than any other for job changes, and he applies for a new job and gets ****** that he does not get hired,  The last 2 years, he was barely above .500.

He then starts throwing an adolescent temper tantrum and cutting star players on the team before he quits the game.  You are absolutely not allowed to do this.  There is a rule against just this type of action, for exactly this reason.

Not everyone thinks 4 years is a bad policy either.  New coaches deserve to get decent jobs if they build a good team.  If a coach who won 25 games a year the last 2 seasons applied for the same job, why would the team take someone who had finished 17-13 and 17-12 over that coach?  I personally think that they should go back further and make the older performance count a bit more than it does now.  But the bottom line is that everyone plays the game that they have designed and if we don't like it we can quit playing.

What we can not do is purposely damage a team and then quit.  Why not, because we agreed to a contract that we would not do that in order to play the game in the first place.
11/1/2010 6:35 AM (edited)
nachopuzzle
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I just have to say that this thread is awwwwwwesome. It reminds me of a really passive aggressive family that eventually snaps and has some enormous fight at some random holiday get-together.

Nicely done, hughes. Plus, (IMHO) this could deter other disgruntled users from resorting to similar behavior.
11/1/2010 7:07 AM
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