Maximize Development Topic

Any of the vets out there have any tips for maximizing player development (under the new/current engine) that they would be willing to share?

Specifically, I'm curious about the use and timing of a redshirt. A player obivously improves less when redshirting as compared with playing, and he also improves less the further he gets on in his college career. Does it follow, then, that reshirting his first season is really the best way to maximize development over the full 4 seasons, if the alternative is to give the player a starting gig and some minutes as a freshman?
 
I ask in part because I just had a player post very strong gains (+80 OVR) as a freshman with 28/31 starts and 20.3 minutes. I know he would not have seen such gains had I redshirted him, but I would then, of course, have another year of eligibility out of him.
 
I guess, for purposes of this specific aspect, do you think that a first season redshirt followed by "regular" usage in the freshman year would result in more development than "regular" usage and a second season redshirt (everything else being equal)?
11/1/2010 12:41 AM
i think you are technically slightly better if the redshirt is the second season - you gain no work ethic during the redshirt year, but would benefit from any gained work ethic in a redshirt soph year. also, study hall would slightly favor the second season redshirt. however, i don't personally feel the risk of the guy not taking the redshirt is worth it, and don't plan on redshirted sophs. but, there is nothing wrong with it! i think many have had success doing so.

one tip i would make for maximizing player development is to give players, especially young ones with a lot of growth, 0 minutes in low potential categories. and definitely in the maxed out categories.
11/1/2010 3:33 AM
Posted by coach_billyg on 11/1/2010 3:33:00 AM (view original):
i think you are technically slightly better if the redshirt is the second season - you gain no work ethic during the redshirt year, but would benefit from any gained work ethic in a redshirt soph year. also, study hall would slightly favor the second season redshirt. however, i don't personally feel the risk of the guy not taking the redshirt is worth it, and don't plan on redshirted sophs. but, there is nothing wrong with it! i think many have had success doing so.

one tip i would make for maximizing player development is to give players, especially young ones with a lot of growth, 0 minutes in low potential categories. and definitely in the maxed out categories.
That's an excellent point about the Work Ethic, thanks! It may or may not be worth risking the RS as a soph, but it's certainly something to consider.

With respect to the zero in low potemtial categories, do you run the same risk of having those categories decline as you would if you had practiced them up to a non-max level?
11/1/2010 3:50 AM
I did RS a Sophomore this season on one of my teams, but it was because I needed to achieve a better class balance than trying to maximize his growth.

I think it is harder to get a Sophomore. to accept the RS without an impact on WE, whereas a Freshman will more readily accept it and when he does react negatively with a WE drop, it seems less than the one a Freshman would have.

I also look at the RS season as "extra attributes".  He will not grow as much as a RS as he would if he was not a RS ... but he still all 4 normal growth years too.

So, to me the easier acceptance and lower WE drop makes it better to RS a Freshman almost all the time. 

The only time I would RS someone else is in the case like I just had, where I took over a team with 7 Sophomores.  I was able to cut 2 (who were not very good) and RS one.  This gets my class balance to 3 SR, 4 JR, 4 SO, 1 FR after the second recruiting  period.  It would have been 3,7,1,1 without the cuts.
11/1/2010 12:27 PM
Posted by zbrent716 on 11/1/2010 3:50:00 AM (view original):
Posted by coach_billyg on 11/1/2010 3:33:00 AM (view original):
i think you are technically slightly better if the redshirt is the second season - you gain no work ethic during the redshirt year, but would benefit from any gained work ethic in a redshirt soph year. also, study hall would slightly favor the second season redshirt. however, i don't personally feel the risk of the guy not taking the redshirt is worth it, and don't plan on redshirted sophs. but, there is nothing wrong with it! i think many have had success doing so.

one tip i would make for maximizing player development is to give players, especially young ones with a lot of growth, 0 minutes in low potential categories. and definitely in the maxed out categories.
That's an excellent point about the Work Ethic, thanks! It may or may not be worth risking the RS as a soph, but it's certainly something to consider.

With respect to the zero in low potemtial categories, do you run the same risk of having those categories decline as you would if you had practiced them up to a non-max level?
no, its not exactly the same risk. the way to think about it is, there is only one improvement curve - and decreases work off it as well. however, they are slower than improvement. so, when improvement gets very slow, so do decreases, and decreases may stop completely before improvement does. similarly, when increases are high, so are decreases.

with freshman, i usually put them at 0 in all lows. but that could be a low with 0 points of improvement, or one with 5 (or anything in between). a 5 point low, you will start seeing decreases, could be as high as 3 points in a season in a bad case. so usually after non conf or so i will check my players and then if anybody has dropped a point (which is not a big risk, right?), i will decide if i am willing to lose another point or two to continue higher gains in the categories i would have to steal those minutes from (i usually would stick with 0). in most cases, the freshman have not lost a point in the low category, so i just continue with 0 minutes, and maybe by season end they will lose a point (this might happen on say a 2 point of improvement low) or they won't lose any.

in the end of the day, if you are setting out to maximize improvement, i don't see why you wouldn't go with 0 lows for players with significant growth left. but some coaches play to maximize laziness - they want to set it and forget it, and want to make sure nothing drops. i also like to set it and forget it now, but, don't care if i lose a couple points, especially in a non core category, for guaranteed gains in core categories.

also keep in mind there is often 1 point of improvement left after the capped message. so in a core category, if you don't have much else to practice, it might be worth putting in extra minutes (more than it takes to maintain) to get that last point. but i rarely find this to be the optimal decision while players have any significant improvement left.
11/1/2010 1:03 PM
I should know this by now, but I don't.

What - precisely - is that language that I should be looking for as the truly capped message?
11/1/2010 8:06 PM
I've been spending extra time working with xxxxx on his perimeter game and unless you have any other ideas, that's all I can get from him.

Hey Coach, I think we could better utilize xxxxx EXTRA practice time by focusing on something other than his outside shot - he just doesn't seem to be making much more progress there.

Hey Coach, IMHO I think we could better utilize the EXTRA practice time we've been spending with xxxxx on something other passing - he just doesn't seem to be making much progress there.

Hey Coach, I was thinking that we could better utilize xxxxx EXTRA practice time by focusing on something other than low post moves - he just doesn't seem to be showing any significant improvement.

Is it just me or do you think that xxxxx has maxed out in terms of rebounding ability? I don't know, I just haven't seen much improvement. Maybe we should think about having him spend his extra practice time on something else?

Hey Coach, I'm not sure how much we're gaining by spending so much time working with xxxxx on free throw shooting. He just doesn't seem to be making much more progress there.

After continuing to work with xxxxx, what do you think about using that extra practice time to focus on something other than his low-post moves?

Hey Coach, just my 2 cents, but I think we could better utilize xxxxx extra practice time by focusing on something other than rebounding - he just doesn't seem to be making much more progress there.

Every one of the examples above says the same thing - the dude is MAXED out.
11/1/2010 11:22 PM
I think player's year has less to do with whether they will accept the RS than how many players you have at his listed position with higher total ratings.  If I have 4 PG instead of 2PG/2SG or 4C instead of 2PF/2C I often find it's very easy to RS a sophomore because they think they are third string at their position. 
11/2/2010 2:06 AM
Posted by rusticity on 11/2/2010 2:06:00 AM (view original):
I think player's year has less to do with whether they will accept the RS than how many players you have at his listed position with higher total ratings.  If I have 4 PG instead of 2PG/2SG or 4C instead of 2PF/2C I often find it's very easy to RS a sophomore because they think they are third string at their position. 

With sophmores, does the negative effect to WE that comes along with a rejected RS go away after it is rescended? Similar to what happens to incoming freshmen. I couldn't discern whether this was the case or not from the earlier portions of the thread. 

11/2/2010 2:26 AM
Posted by nachopuzzle on 11/2/2010 2:26:00 AM (view original):
Posted by rusticity on 11/2/2010 2:06:00 AM (view original):
I think player's year has less to do with whether they will accept the RS than how many players you have at his listed position with higher total ratings.  If I have 4 PG instead of 2PG/2SG or 4C instead of 2PF/2C I often find it's very easy to RS a sophomore because they think they are third string at their position. 

With sophmores, does the negative effect to WE that comes along with a rejected RS go away after it is rescended? Similar to what happens to incoming freshmen. I couldn't discern whether this was the case or not from the earlier portions of the thread. 

Yes, in my limited experience (I've only done it once) it works the same way it does with freshmen, in that if they take a WE hit and then you remove the RS, the player gets the "lost" WE back.
11/2/2010 3:18 AM
Wenna, thanks a ton. I've been leaving quite a bit development on the table apparently, as I'd interpreted some of those messages to be the equivalent of - "he's almost there, but not maxed yet."

Are you in the 7 min/3 (for per/LP) to maintain camp, or are you of the opinion that (once maxed) you can drop practice time to zero without any noticeable ill effects?
11/2/2010 3:20 AM
Thanks.
11/2/2010 3:58 AM
Posted by zbrent716 on 11/2/2010 3:20:00 AM (view original):
Wenna, thanks a ton. I've been leaving quite a bit development on the table apparently, as I'd interpreted some of those messages to be the equivalent of - "he's almost there, but not maxed yet."

Are you in the 7 min/3 (for per/LP) to maintain camp, or are you of the opinion that (once maxed) you can drop practice time to zero without any noticeable ill effects?
once you get the maxed message put 0 in that area and move those minutes somewhere else.
11/2/2010 1:15 PM
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