Distro Advice - Page 2 - Hoops Dynasty

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I'm going with Skunk on this one, on both counts.

First, I believe that a coach who doesn't adjust distro based on his opponent and individual matchups is missing a golden opportunity to improve his results. I tinker with my lineups and distro constantly, and I've done OK with it. If you check out my two current teams, you'll see that I don't even use a fixed lineup (check the number of starts for my players) from game to game. I'm sure that I win games in many cases because of superior players on my roster, but I think there is a lot to be said for what you can find in the margins as well. The idea that adjusting distro based on matchups "makes great teams good and good teams mediocre" is simply ludicrous, unless you're talking about a coach who has no idea what he is doing.

Second, winning three titles in five years is damn difficult, regardless of what situation you find yourself in. Maybe bad form for him to crow about it, but still, I've got to respect anybody who brings home the bacon like that.

11/30/2010 11:54 AM

uglyskunk3

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Posted by worthy14sure on 11/30/2010 11:52:00 AM (view original):
Very far but you have to pick and chose who you take advice from.

I have won zero NT and made only one title game but then again I play against the best coaches instead of staying at D3 and pounding my chest against SIMs and newbies.....

u play against the best coaches because you move up to D1 or D2? that is a joke. and some how D3 coaches aren't as good? you sir are making a fool out of yourself. Most D3 coaches, currently coach in other worlds in other divisions. You are not a great coach yet some how you moved up. many newbies actually play a few seasons in d3 and don't have much success and immediately move up to d2 before they have mastered the first level.

by your logic carlbuzz who has 4 d3 championships isn't as good as your unimpressive performances in d1 and d2. haha, i think you need to come back to d3 and learn a few things.

11/30/2010 12:10 PM

uglyskunk3

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Posted by davis on 11/30/2010 11:54:00 AM (view original):
I'm going with Skunk on this one, on both counts.

First, I believe that a coach who doesn't adjust distro based on his opponent and individual matchups is missing a golden opportunity to improve his results. I tinker with my lineups and distro constantly, and I've done OK with it. If you check out my two current teams, you'll see that I don't even use a fixed lineup (check the number of starts for my players) from game to game. I'm sure that I win games in many cases because of superior players on my roster, but I think there is a lot to be said for what you can find in the margins as well. The idea that adjusting distro based on matchups "makes great teams good and good teams mediocre" is simply ludicrous, unless you're talking about a coach who has no idea what he is doing.

Second, winning three titles in five years is damn difficult, regardless of what situation you find yourself in. Maybe bad form for him to crow about it, but still, I've got to respect anybody who brings home the bacon like that.

i agree with you davis, this quote about distro logic, "makes great teams good and good teams mediocre" is ludicrous. i still can't believe anyone thinks changing your distro is micro managing? i still remember coaches saying winning championships was a combination of great recrutiing and luck and game planning was an after thought. luck? no. you can make your own luck by figuring out your opponents weaknesses and exploiting them. is it easier to do with a great team full of talent? yes, of course, but you can do it with much less talent if you know what you are doing.

most coaches actually hurt themselves. most coaches are sacrificing wins just to win individual player accomplishments. most coaches will play their players more minutes and think they will get more points, when in fact a more rested player would probably take a bit less shots, but a make a better percentage. game planning in this game is the best part and is the true measure of a great coach and a good coach.

11/30/2010 12:35 PM (edited)

bscoresby

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On the general, I still think some people over manage team in terms of distro. There are many other ways to prepare your team, rather than changing distros for every team.. Generally after 5 or 6 non con games I know exactly what changes need to be made... I rarely need to change distros much later into the season... much less change this dependent on teams

and yes, 3 championships in 5 years is very impressive, congratulations.

11/30/2010 12:34 PM

fatchance

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Acquiring superior recruits is the quickest route to relative success in this game but it is not the only way. In NT runs often times it comes down to the best coaching on whom advances and who is left scratching their head as to how their team was eliminated. A well conceived lineup change or distribution change is only ignored by those who wish not to see. I do my fair share of complaining when I lose games I thought I should win or could of won but I still respect that there is usually more than bad luck that caused the result. A team loaded with talent has the luxury to set a solid distribution plan and neglect to make appropriate distro changes and yet still succeed. That does not mean they are maximizing their teams ability in fact they likely are not.

11/30/2010 12:52 PM

girt25

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Talent is #1, that is true. But I think there is a lot of value in game-to-game tweaks with distro, positioning, tempo, lineup, etc. (provided that you know what you're doing and making the right tweaks). bscoresby, I would actually turn your initial comment on its ear and say that consistently making the right adjustments can make a good team great and a mediocre team good.

11/30/2010 12:58 PM

oldresorter

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davis - I only ask this of you, because based on your math background, and one time I thought you did some work for tarek, do you know how the engine performs defense. If it works the way I think it works, then I think individual match ups are over-rated - not irrelevant, but when I have coaches explain in detail what they do, few really get it - biily g has sitemailed me in person what he does (I think he would say he is a notoriously detailed gameplanner), I don't game plan at all, but I think we came to the conclusion we really don't do things all that differently.

I honestly can give you very narrow cases where ind matchups would mean near everything, and others where ind matchups would mean very little, but for the majority of the coaches out there, they would make far better use of their time trying to figure out who their best players are, and what the ideal distro is for each member of the team, and how distro fluxuates with rotations.

As teams get more and more powerful vs the competition, very little matters, as teams get weaker and weaker, everything matters - but, as teams get more and more unbalanced, it is far more important to get relative distro within a team unit and within rotations correct, than worrying about the opponent. I once won a national title with a team that was in the 680's, beat 5 teams that were 100 pts better than I in the tourny, never once did I change distro, def, or off.

With the new mentoring program, I have had several coaches ask me for distro help, some of the things I see are so far off base - based on trying to gameplan, that it is not even funny.

Most coaches would do far better to take real life old school coachin advice, 'give it to you best uns, and see if there best uns can stop em'.

Davis, is it not ironic, that on this page, some complain that bing ball - 75% to the starting SG and 25% to his backup works too well, and others say ind matchups is the only way to go. My way is my best player gets the most touches (the key is to know how to define 'best'), and I slowly work thru the ranks and give my progressively worse players fewer touches. In the long run, I feel this is the best way to be consistent, although if I tried to outguess someone, I might get it right for this game or that game, in order to win 6 straight and win a NT, I feel my best odds are to split strategy right down the middle.

sorry for the rant, probably have written this diatribe up a dozen times since I started, I don't think anyone other than me believes it - LOL

11/30/2010 12:59 PM

girt25

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Funny, as I was reading this thread I thought about my approach vs. OR's. I do a lot of gameplanning ... sometimes it might end up just being subtle tweaks, but I'm constantly changing things. (I used to be way worse; time constraints have shortened my regimen.) And OR pretty much finds the settings he likes and he thinks are optimum for his team and rolls with it. Both seem to have worked nicely, showing once again that there's far more than once way to do things and be successful in HD..

11/30/2010 1:18 PM

dahsdebater

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Thanks for hijacking my thread skunk... At least I got 1 actual response.

11/30/2010 1:18 PM

brip87

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I use or approach. I find the more I tweak the worse I get. I ususally have the best success when set it and forget it.

11/30/2010 1:27 PM

uglyskunk3

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Posted by dahsdebater on 11/30/2010 1:18:00 PM (view original):
Thanks for hijacking my thread skunk... At least I got 1 actual response.

sorry about that dahsdebater. you said you would post your distros, you should do that. i'm sure a few of the coaches on this thread would be happy to give their thoughts.

11/30/2010 1:30 PM

dahsdebater

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Wasn't really entirely your fault, just spiraled out of control. I'm going to post my distros in a separate thread.

11/30/2010 1:33 PM

oldresorter

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Posted by dahsdebater on 11/30/2010 1:18:00 PM (view original):
Thanks for hijacking my thread skunk... At least I got 1 actual response.

dah - your team is playing so well, why would you ask for advice? the little bit of advice I have seen offered here, my advice would be to stick with what you are doing, it appears to be working very well - really well actually.

what are you unhappy with? How are you approaching it - one strategy, or are you gameplanning each game?

One tip I would pass on, if you have anything you want to try, try it now, so you can lock things down for the CT & NT run. This includes if you are gameplanning each game, figure out what you do and get confident with it, then go with it or if you have a set it and forget it style, lock it in and trust it - either way, that is one of the keys.

11/30/2010 1:35 PM

davis

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I hate the way the quoting mechanism works, so I'll do it this way... here is what OR said:

"davis - do you know how the engine performs defense. If it works the way I think it works, then I think individual match ups are over-rated - not irrelevant, but when I have coaches explain in detail what they do, few really get it - biily g has sitemailed me in person what he does (I think he would say he is a notoriously detailed gameplanner), I don't game plan at all, but I think we came to the conclusion we really don't do things all that differently."

I don't know how the engine performs defense. (I was never that close to the details of the game engine, and never thought it was a good idea that I should be b/c of the unfair advantage that knowledge would have given me as a coach.)

What I do know is that the new engine appears to place a greater emphasis on both distro and individual matchups than the old one did. Before Seble changed the game engine, I would have agreed that game-to-game tweaking was fairly irrelevant. I'd set my distro at the start of the year and only occasionally alter it to give more touches to overachieving players (and fewer to guys who were shooting poorly). But with the current engine incarnation, I think that you can gain an edge by being willing to not just tweak but heavily alter your distro (and sometimes even your lineup) based on your opponent. This is not based on any formulas or careful experiments, just by trial, error (lots of those!), and observation.

As a side benefit, changing lineups and distros also make it harder for others to gameplan against you - I think this is not a trivial benefit, especially when you get to the post-season and are facing top-tier coaches.

11/30/2010 1:44 PM (edited)

dahsdebater

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My team hasn't played the toughest competition, and I've had some other very good regular seasons only to be unceremoniously ushered out of the NT in the first round. That's why I'm wondering what I could do to improve my gameplanning. This isn't the first time I've had a team good enough to make a deep tournament run, but so far it hasn't happened... My coaching is still lagging well behind my recruiting.

11/30/2010 1:53 PM

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