wsut Game Rating: All Star Forum Rating: Prospect Posts: 33 (1)
HD - 30 seasons GD - 2 seasons HBD - 1 seasons

"Just saw this in the ODAC Phelan CC. If you are the same guy that had Emory and Henry a few seasons back (and it looks like you are if you're saying you're foxbat as well) before me on my other id (djp4516), then you have definitely used the accounts to spread your FSS around. When I took the job over, E&H, which is in Virginia, Indiana and Texas were bought using FSS, I sitemailed you on why, and your response was because you were using them for another ID. I don't have the sitemail anymore because they get deleted, but you're claiming that you never upset the competitive balance when I heard from your own mouth that you did indeed use your budget from another school to benefit yourself in the same world".

THIS IS HILARIOUS AND AWESOME. BILLYG, WOULD YOU AGREE THAT'S PRETTY RED-HANDED?

(And also, notice how in the post above he didn't come close to addressing any of the allegations, he just simply talked about how he came to coach each team, which nobody brought up and isn't germaine to the conversation.)

Posted by girt25 on 1/11/2011 4:51:00 PM (view original):
wsut Game Rating: All Star Forum Rating: Prospect Posts: 33 (1)
HD - 30 seasons GD - 2 seasons HBD - 1 seasons

"Just saw this in the ODAC Phelan CC. If you are the same guy that had Emory and Henry a few seasons back (and it looks like you are if you're saying you're foxbat as well) before me on my other id (djp4516), then you have definitely used the accounts to spread your FSS around. When I took the job over, E&H, which is in Virginia, Indiana and Texas were bought using FSS, I sitemailed you on why, and your response was because you were using them for another ID. I don't have the sitemail anymore because they get deleted, but you're claiming that you never upset the competitive balance when I heard from your own mouth that you did indeed use your budget from another school to benefit yourself in the same world".

THIS IS HILARIOUS AND AWESOME. BILLYG, WOULD YOU AGREE THAT'S PRETTY RED-HANDED?

(And also, notice how in the post above he didn't come close to addressing any of the allegations, he just simply talked about how he came to coach each team, which nobody brought up and isn't germaine to the conversation.)

Yep, which makes it even funnier/sadder that he's claiming he's a legit coach when I very nearly came to the forums to post that sitemail when I got it. I should have saved it, but I didn't. It cost me almost $2,400 in a 4 scholarship year in D3, which is quite a chunk of money. The guys that are there now were the ones I got in that class.

This is the sitemail he sent me, when I asked him to show his FSS for CMHMS, to prove he is not sharing FSS:

"

He didn't even try to dispute that he is sharing FSS among his teams, either in sitemail or in the forum. 

Posted by girt25 on 1/11/2011 4:51:00 PM (view original):
wsut Game Rating: All Star Forum Rating: Prospect Posts: 33 (1)
HD - 30 seasons GD - 2 seasons HBD - 1 seasons

"Just saw this in the ODAC Phelan CC. If you are the same guy that had Emory and Henry a few seasons back (and it looks like you are if you're saying you're foxbat as well) before me on my other id (djp4516), then you have definitely used the accounts to spread your FSS around. When I took the job over, E&H, which is in Virginia, Indiana and Texas were bought using FSS, I sitemailed you on why, and your response was because you were using them for another ID. I don't have the sitemail anymore because they get deleted, but you're claiming that you never upset the competitive balance when I heard from your own mouth that you did indeed use your budget from another school to benefit yourself in the same world".

THIS IS HILARIOUS AND AWESOME. BILLYG, WOULD YOU AGREE THAT'S PRETTY RED-HANDED?

(And also, notice how in the post above he didn't come close to addressing any of the allegations, he just simply talked about how he came to coach each team, which nobody brought up and isn't germaine to the conversation.)

yeah, pretty red-handed. as long as wsut really means for another id, not for his new team under the same id (which is somewhat shady but not cheating)

Posted by gillispie on 1/11/2011 5:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by girt25 on 1/11/2011 4:51:00 PM (view original):
wsut Game Rating: All Star Forum Rating: Prospect Posts: 33 (1)
HD - 30 seasons GD - 2 seasons HBD - 1 seasons

"Just saw this in the ODAC Phelan CC. If you are the same guy that had Emory and Henry a few seasons back (and it looks like you are if you're saying you're foxbat as well) before me on my other id (djp4516), then you have definitely used the accounts to spread your FSS around. When I took the job over, E&H, which is in Virginia, Indiana and Texas were bought using FSS, I sitemailed you on why, and your response was because you were using them for another ID. I don't have the sitemail anymore because they get deleted, but you're claiming that you never upset the competitive balance when I heard from your own mouth that you did indeed use your budget from another school to benefit yourself in the same world".

THIS IS HILARIOUS AND AWESOME. BILLYG, WOULD YOU AGREE THAT'S PRETTY RED-HANDED?

(And also, notice how in the post above he didn't come close to addressing any of the allegations, he just simply talked about how he came to coach each team, which nobody brought up and isn't germaine to the conversation.)

yeah, pretty red-handed. as long as wsut really means for another id, not for his new team under the same id (which is somewhat shady but not cheating)

I believe the wording of the sitemail was "for another ID", but I guess I could be wrong. Regardless, why would he buy 2 states so far apart from each other? That would be like you buying Oregon and Minnesota for your SIUE team, Billy. 

And guess which teams are in TX and Indiana? Texas Dallas and Wabash...

And if I'm doing the math correctly, this means the players recruited from those seasons would be JR now? There are 2 JRs on CMHMS from TX. Yeah, he definitely scouted TX with CMHMS, Texas Dallas, and then scouted it with Emory and Henry just for fun. 

Posted by wsut on 1/11/2011 5:19:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gillispie on 1/11/2011 5:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by girt25 on 1/11/2011 4:51:00 PM (view original):
wsut Game Rating: All Star Forum Rating: Prospect Posts: 33 (1)
HD - 30 seasons GD - 2 seasons HBD - 1 seasons

"Just saw this in the ODAC Phelan CC. If you are the same guy that had Emory and Henry a few seasons back (and it looks like you are if you're saying you're foxbat as well) before me on my other id (djp4516), then you have definitely used the accounts to spread your FSS around. When I took the job over, E&H, which is in Virginia, Indiana and Texas were bought using FSS, I sitemailed you on why, and your response was because you were using them for another ID. I don't have the sitemail anymore because they get deleted, but you're claiming that you never upset the competitive balance when I heard from your own mouth that you did indeed use your budget from another school to benefit yourself in the same world".

THIS IS HILARIOUS AND AWESOME. BILLYG, WOULD YOU AGREE THAT'S PRETTY RED-HANDED?

(And also, notice how in the post above he didn't come close to addressing any of the allegations, he just simply talked about how he came to coach each team, which nobody brought up and isn't germaine to the conversation.)

yeah, pretty red-handed. as long as wsut really means for another id, not for his new team under the same id (which is somewhat shady but not cheating)

I believe the wording of the sitemail was "for another ID", but I guess I could be wrong. Regardless, why would he buy 2 states so far apart from each other? That would be like you buying Oregon and Minnesota for your SIUE team, Billy. 

especially when looking for a guard who can score, i often can't find one within 360, and i basically have to just look at the available non scouted options and take the crap shoot. so i do stuff like that pretty often. still, it sounds pretty fishy.

there is also the issue of # of scholarships... d3 budget is so limited, if you see a guy scouting TX and CA and NC on the same guy, he might be over his total budget already. i would try to look at that if i were you tianyi.

This has become a bit of a witch hunt and piling on.  If people have concerns, they should be sent to the administration to investigate.
I had concerns about another coach before, he responded to my satisfaction and I dropped it.   That, or don't schedule him and his SOS will be an issue every year if all he gets are sims.

From what I can tell, administration does not really care about these issues and is happy to collect the money as the worlds are barely filled as is.  If people leave because of concerns over collusion, then maybe they will care.  Otherwise I think WIS is happy to get money from anyone they can, even if it has the air of impropriety.

Posted by coach_billyg on 1/11/2011 5:31:00 PM (view original):
there is also the issue of # of scholarships... d3 budget is so limited, if you see a guy scouting TX and CA and NC on the same guy, he might be over his total budget already. i would try to look at that if i were you tianyi.

Well I can't know which states a team has scouted.

I think in the case of foxbat/karrman/etc. it's clear that he's sharing fss. After all these posts, all he has said is he has 5 teams, and he's keeping all 5, deal with it. He hasn't said anything in regards to he's not cheating, he's not sharing data, or he scouts TX with both his CMHMS and Texas Dallas team. Nor is he willing to reveal his FSS data after all players are signed, which other coaches with multiple teams are willing to do (according to ppl who have responded in this thread).

To be honest, I am surprised how many coaches have multiple teams in one world, and by how relaxed the rules are in HD in which it is clear a coach is FSS sharing among his teams. 

One of the worst times was last spring when they had the 'free season' promotion for new coaches.  I counted 61 new coaches in DIII Iba who failed to sign a recruit, including teams with 9 or 10 openings.  I contacted WIS and was told, "Unfortunately, cheating occurs no matter the rules and we continue to improve our method for detecting cheaters."

i think it should be 1 team per world...period...

for those of you who say you have multiple teams and never abuse it - but yet see the way it can be abused, i'm glad you don't abuse it and appreciate it...but you've made a point that's counter intuitive to the issue...you've essentially agreed it's something that can abused - which is really agreeing it is being abused.  just cause you don't speed, does that mean there should be no speed limits?

for those with multiple teams, money and time invested - i wouldn't mind if you were able to keep 2 total teams and be grandfathered in that way...but i think 2 is plenty

although this all somewhat moot because it's probably extremely hard to prevent multiple accounts...and somewhat detrimental to their revenue as well.

Just a couple of thoughts I have-

1. Where are the fair play guidelines listed?  I couldn't find them for this topic.  I just don't know if FSS sharing is or isn't against the guidelines.

2. To be fair, I don't think anyone should have two IDs in the same world and division.  33 teams are plenty, and if that's not enough for you... well... then maybe we need to have an intervention.  And I don't even think people should be allowed to add additional IDs to worlds (now that there are PLENTY).  I understand that some people have had two for years, and I don't think anyone should be forced to remove an ID that they've had for more than 3 seasons in a world.  But I'm an optimist, and would like to believe that 98% of the people with multiple accounts are doing everything they can to not create a benefit for themselves that way.  Can/Should they adjust the system for that 2%?

3. Every loophole can't be closed.  Period.  Some people will ALWAYS find a way to push the limits of the system.  Sometimes this is cheating, other times this is being very smart.  Outside of monitoring every activity from every IP address, and having staff review every single time we log in what we do, it will happen.

4. I'm not sure if the FSS system should change for the reasons in this thread.  We are likely talking about 5-10 people a world and at MOST 100 total that have multiple accounts that could be in a position to actually take advantage of this.  I personally dislike FSS/potential, but this is not the reason to change the system.

Now, if FSS sharing is against fair play guidelines, how is it enforced?  Word of mouth?  Reporting?  I don't believe WIS has the staff to enforce that rule, and it does come down to users stepping up.

I am sorta  against having 2 or more teams in one world. Why ?  It is just way to easy to cheat during recruiting w/ FSS

For example, I coach a D1 Prov school in Tark.  My dad coaches a D2 school also in Tark (I help him).   note: I have informed tech support upfront when my father started playing HD in Tark about us having two teams in the same world

If either one of us were cheaters, I (or he) can easily use my Prov FSS account (since I have ample money in D1 to buy FSS states) to scout D2 players regardless of distance.  That would put him at a huge advantage over his D2 peers.  It is so easy to do (login to 1 account using Firefox and the other using IE.  Then align the windows).  It is just too tempting...

I assume it comes down to putting trust in fellow coaches that what I typed above isn't done.