Posted by tianyi7886 on 1/13/2011 10:49:00 AM (view original):

Posted by girt25 on 1/13/2011 10:07:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Iguana1 on 1/13/2011 9:36:00 AM (view original):
in a little known fact Kentucky actually retired Sam Bowie's redshirt.

Another questionable draft pick was in 2003:   1) LeBron James  2) Darko Milicic  3) Carmelo Anthony  4) Chris Bosh   5)  Dwyane Wade 
one of these is not like the others

I'm a Pistons fan and I will say that even at the time I was livid they didn't take Carmelo. I was just distraught over that ... and it turned out even worse than I could've ever imagined. (Of course, I was also pretty excited when the Lions took Charles Rogers, so my track record as a talent evaluator is pretty spotty ...)

There are those picks every year. Look at 2001. Kwame Brown #1 and Eddy Curry at #4, while Gilbert Arenas is taken in round 2. 

I think basketball drafts are unique in that it's only 2 rounds, and college basketball isn't so drastically different from nba.

Football is just a whole different beast. College teams run completely different systems from the NFL and the talent disparity between the good and mediocre teams is much greater than that of basketball. The fact that a great player cannot carry a team in football usually makes the player go lower in the draft, and become the value picks or great picks that we talk about today.

I really disagree with the fact that "college basketball isn't drastically different from the nba"

The games are completely different, as was mentioned before a kid with great college speed isn't going to have great nba speed the games are totally different, just like high school to college is different. The game is much faster, how many talented college freshmen do you see show up and just aren't able to play up to their talent level because of that? **cough**Harison**cough**barnes**cough**

It's a different 'difference' than the nfl/ncaa football has but they are not the same game.

I agree.  There is just an entirely different level of size and athleticism needed to play in the Nba.  Actually, the difference between skill position players in the NCAA/NFL isn't that different.  The vast majority of unathletic or slow-ish WRs/RBs aren't going to make it in the NFL without a lot of something else (i.e. strength, hands, etc.).  Same as the NBA. 

Posted by tianyi7886 on 1/13/2011 2:10:00 PM (view original):

Posted by jetwildcat on 1/13/2011 1:55:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tianyi7886 on 1/13/2011 1:38:00 PM (view original):
NBA/college all run similar systems. Man defense, zone defense, motion offense, triangle, how to run the fast break, how to break press, etc.

College transition for football to NFL is huge, in that college schemes are much simpler reads, with a pretty strong emphasis on a spread offense. NFL schemes have much different and harder reads, and every team has a different play book that a player needs to learn, memorize, etc. This is why a player can put up great stats in college in a spread offense, but be taken much lower in the draft than a player that comes from a pro-style offense with worse stats. Sure the physical stats from the Combines change things too, but alot of the times, a great college career is simply a result of the system. 

there are a lot more positions in football than "quarterback", which is what your explanation most directly applies to.

you're correct in everything you've said, BUT you're ignoring the huge differences between college and NBA. namely, the importance of athleticism. athleticism is even more important for the basketball transition than the football transition. you can't definitively say that football is a tougher transition. also keep in mind how often NFL rookies excel and make the pro bowl compared to how often NBA rookies make the all-star game.

Not just QB. RB that runs in a pure man blocking scheme to run in a zone blocking scheme is a huge difference. WR needs to learn different routes, and especially timing with a new QB (which can take years to build up), Tackles and Guards need to learn different blocking schemes. And defense, even changing from 3-4 to a 4-3 defense for a nosetackle that have played 3-4 his whole life (Albert Haynesworth's gripe) is a huge transition. 

NFL rookies do indeed make the pro bowl, but we also have to look at the # of rookies in each NFL class. It's around 250 rookies in the NFL to 60 in the NBA. And then you account for there simply being more positions/players involved in a game in the NFL, it also makes sense to see more rookies making the pro bowl than the NBA. And for those NFL rookies that do indeed make the pro bowl, they are handed the key to the offense/defense. You don't rarely see a rookie in the NBA become the focal point of the offense in his first year. In fact, besides the top few picks, most NBA rookies don't even start in their first year, which makes an All-Star appearance all but impossible.

I'm not denying that transitioning from College to NBA is hard, but it's not like learning a new game, which is what some players in football experience. 

i think learning to play with people more athletic than you is just as, if not more difficult that the changes you've outlined. nfl players go through those changes when they change teams too, sure there's a learning curve there obviously but nothing like adjusting to the pros in general.

and obviously there will be a larger number of rookies in the pro bowl than the nba all-star game, 90 players make the pro bowl and 24 the all star game. i mean from a % standpoint the NFL is higher.

agree to disagree i think we each have enough knowledge of the situation that neither of us will change our mind lol

Posted by zbrent716 on 1/12/2011 10:32:00 PM (view original):
J.J. Redick is in his 5th NBA season, after being selected 11th overall in the first round, and is averaging about 10ppg in 25 mpg this season (mostly off the bench). He's also earned about $10M playing basketball as a pro so far.

Fredette has a shot to at least equal that.

This is exactly who I thought of when reading this.  Although Reddick is 6'4 so he may be able to man up a little more effectively and you have to be able to play some level of D or you won't make it in the league.

Jimmer isn't even the best pro prospect in his conference.  He is the best college player, but Kawhi Leonard has the most pro potential. 

BScores we need a friendly bet on the 2 SDSU/BYU games this year. 

Posted by johnmacdan on 1/15/2011 6:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by zbrent716 on 1/12/2011 10:32:00 PM (view original):
J.J. Redick is in his 5th NBA season, after being selected 11th overall in the first round, and is averaging about 10ppg in 25 mpg this season (mostly off the bench). He's also earned about $10M playing basketball as a pro so far.

Fredette has a shot to at least equal that.

This is exactly who I thought of when reading this.  Although Reddick is 6'4 so he may be able to man up a little more effectively and you have to be able to play some level of D or you won't make it in the league.

lol did you just imply that jj plays defense?

Posted by sull21858 on 1/16/2011 9:43:00 PM (view original):
Jimmer isn't even the best pro prospect in his conference.  He is the best college player, but Kawhi Leonard has the most pro potential. 

BScores we need a friendly bet on the 2 SDSU/BYU games this year. 

Yes agree with you there. Will be intersting to see if Leonard goes pro after this year or not. I would have to think he will.

Posted by sull21858 on 1/16/2011 9:43:00 PM (view original):
Jimmer isn't even the best pro prospect in his conference.  He is the best college player, but Kawhi Leonard has the most pro potential. 

BScores we need a friendly bet on the 2 SDSU/BYU games this year. 

I'll agree with that. Leonard is a BEAST, and has a skill set that fits the NBA good.


I bet BYU and SDSU split home wins. They are 2 drastically different teams.  SDSU is front court strong.  Leonard and Thomas scare the begeebees out of me. Billy White is good, but he doesn't play great against BYU.  Gay is good not great, I think Tapley and Rahon are serviceable at best. Viejas is going to be a hard place to win.  The Show will be a zoo.

BYU is backcourt strong, Jimmer and Jackson are pretty good, both great outside shooters. Chris Collinsworth had surgery, so he is out.  It means Davies needs to step up and not get fouls 20 feet from the basket.   Abouo needs to get healthy again. The Marriott Center will be 22.7k strong for the Jan 26 meeting between the 2 teams.

Posted by zhawks on 1/17/2011 11:30:00 AM (view original):

Posted by johnmacdan on 1/15/2011 6:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by zbrent716 on 1/12/2011 10:32:00 PM (view original):
J.J. Redick is in his 5th NBA season, after being selected 11th overall in the first round, and is averaging about 10ppg in 25 mpg this season (mostly off the bench). He's also earned about $10M playing basketball as a pro so far.

Fredette has a shot to at least equal that.

This is exactly who I thought of when reading this.  Although Reddick is 6'4 so he may be able to man up a little more effectively and you have to be able to play some level of D or you won't make it in the league.

lol did you just imply that jj plays defense?

People in the NBA play defense?

bad news guys, Jimmer only has 21 points, 3 rebs and 4 assists in the first half tonight     

Jimmy goes down tonight. 

Jimmer with 20 at the half- a great game, SDSU up 31-30 at the half.  KL has like 13 and 7 board for SDSU.       

The real question is, has any of you experienced T.J Fredette yet?

http://www.barstoolu.com/#random-thoughts/t-j-fredette-everybody/

He was on another level last night. 

The next 2 matchups- @ SDSU, Vegas for MWC - won't be at elevation so hopfully the Aztecs legs can last longer than 33 minutes

A good column on Jimmer's pro prospects.   The only thing that is agreed upon, is that the NBA personel people don't agree.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-fredettenba012811