Posted by Rails on 2/23/2011 11:56:00 AM (view original):
As suspected I think the press is very much alive and well with this update due to the fatigue and FG% tweaks.  Just for ***** and giggles I switched from zone to press with a bunch of senior A IQ zone players.  Their IQs in press are in the C- range.  We played played the same opponent on the road with press and at home with zone.

Results are staggering.  The biggest is that when pressing the game was extended to 90 possessions.  In the zone it was at about 70 possessions.  One of the biggest supposed negatives to press is FGA% and in both games the opponent shot .455.  Unremarkable.  But maybe the with the tweak .455 was similar to .462 in the old engine.  La dee freakin' da.  Again unremarkable. 

In both games the opponent took 55 FGA, again unremarkable until you factor in the number of possessions and think about it in terms of per possession.  Percentage-wise that's a lot fewer FG attempts against the press (55/70 or .78 shots per possession against zone versus 55/90 press or .61 shots per possession against the press. 

The opponent did shoot 8 more FTs against the press which converted per possession has a lighter impact than its number 8 would indicate  (24 FTA in a 90 possession press game (.26 FTA per possession) versus 16 FTA in a 70 possession zone game (.23 FTA per possession).  

But the whopper stat is 23 turnovers against the press versus 10 against the zone.  Per possession that's 23/90= 26% of possessions ending in a turnover against the press and 14% ending in a TO against the zone.  Same tempo (uptempo), same teams, pressing on the road with C- IQs, playing at home with A zone IQs.

That's 116% more turnovers created per possession in the press while yielding just 13% more FTA.  The press also yielded 22% fewer FGA per possession while the FGA% difference was unremarkable.

I know some of you will say small sample size and it is.  But C- IQs on the road versus A IQs at home.  With fatigue tweaks, FGA tweaks, as a whole fewer fouls occurring in HD than irl even though many teams run press in HD.  It's something I've tracked with other teams for a while.

There is absolutely no downside to the press.  None.  You know it.  I know it.  We all know it.

the press has been alive and well for some time now - since seble fixed the insane low fatigue penalties, and built feedback into fouls - significantly reducing the extreme foul situations press was running into that made you want to kill someone (namely, seble).

Posted by uglyskunk3 on 2/23/2011 11:18:00 AM (view original):
many games, but the morris brown vs. georgetown game set me over the edge. there is nothing i missed in that set up that should've resulted in a loss of 16 points, if anything under my original gameplan i projected a win of five to ten points.

you projected a win of 5 to 10 points?

don't take it the wrong way, but welcome to d1, where it takes more than ath/def to win games.

Posted by uglyskunk3 on 2/23/2011 2:47:00 PM (view original):
maybe so mduncan. it would've been nice to have beta tested these changes. still surprised no one has commented about the shocking results of the stanford game. i know its one game, but it shouldn't be swept under the rug like its no big deal. i ran a defense my team doesn't know and had my best defensive game.....thats alarming.

what was shocking about it? they only won by 11.

agree on the beta testing thing... but i've pretty much lost all hope on that front

So it needs to be beta tested and tweaked until uglyskunk wins every game? This thread is four pages of whining over not winning, without any substantial reasoning.

Running 3-2 zone/press got you a whopping 9 turnovers as stated previously. If you would have run just press you would, maybe, have a case on something. You faced a team and they had a bad shooting night vs your zone. There's nothing "alarming" about this. You're not winning every game. Get over it.

Posted by coach_billyg on 2/23/2011 5:22:00 PM (view original):

Posted by uglyskunk3 on 2/23/2011 2:47:00 PM (view original):
maybe so mduncan. it would've been nice to have beta tested these changes. still surprised no one has commented about the shocking results of the stanford game. i know its one game, but it shouldn't be swept under the rug like its no big deal. i ran a defense my team doesn't know and had my best defensive game.....thats alarming.

what was shocking about it? they only won by 11.

agree on the beta testing thing... but i've pretty much lost all hope on that front

read and do a little research before posting. i ran a defense that my team has no knowledge of and held the opposing team to the lowest field goal percentage of any other opponent this season. not shocking? get real.

Posted by stinenavy on 2/23/2011 5:31:00 PM (view original):
So it needs to be beta tested and tweaked until uglyskunk wins every game? This thread is four pages of whining over not winning, without any substantial reasoning.

Running 3-2 zone/press got you a whopping 9 turnovers as stated previously. If you would have run just press you would, maybe, have a case on something. You faced a team and they had a bad shooting night vs your zone. There's nothing "alarming" about this. You're not winning every game. Get over it.

whining over not winning? what a jack wagon of a post this is. hey einstein if you read the previous posts which you didn't, you'd realize that i played a defense, fullcourt press/zone, not a straight zone and got a better result then all previous games. i stated multiple times that i was gonna experiment with the press for a game and see what happens. the press is not a defense that my team has any practice at yet i had better results with it then the defense my team actually knows.......that is alarming. next time read before posting nonsense.

Posted by dacj501 on 2/23/2011 5:43:00 PM (view original):
dude, you didn't do that though. you ran a combo. half the combo was your primary defense, which you know well...

ETA: and, you stated that your team's knowledge of press was like C-  That's hardly no knowledge...

yah i said i ran combo plenty of times in the thread. thanks for reading. 

Posted by uglyskunk3 on 2/23/2011 5:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by coach_billyg on 2/23/2011 5:22:00 PM (view original):

Posted by uglyskunk3 on 2/23/2011 2:47:00 PM (view original):
maybe so mduncan. it would've been nice to have beta tested these changes. still surprised no one has commented about the shocking results of the stanford game. i know its one game, but it shouldn't be swept under the rug like its no big deal. i ran a defense my team doesn't know and had my best defensive game.....thats alarming.

what was shocking about it? they only won by 11.

agree on the beta testing thing... but i've pretty much lost all hope on that front

read and do a little research before posting. i ran a defense that my team has no knowledge of and held the opposing team to the lowest field goal percentage of any other opponent this season. not shocking? get real.

you added a half court press and held the opponent, at home, to 43%/33%, and forced 9 turnovers. what a mockery of justice!! you get real

also, for the first time, you ran slowdown - creating a small sample size for that game. and that is out of a total of 4 games. i mean come on! with sample size like that, you need something A LOT more impressive than 43%/33% and forcing a grand total of 9 turnovers (the primary benefit of the press being turnovers), before you call it "shocking".

Posted by coach_billyg on 2/23/2011 5:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by uglyskunk3 on 2/23/2011 5:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by coach_billyg on 2/23/2011 5:22:00 PM (view original):

Posted by uglyskunk3 on 2/23/2011 2:47:00 PM (view original):
maybe so mduncan. it would've been nice to have beta tested these changes. still surprised no one has commented about the shocking results of the stanford game. i know its one game, but it shouldn't be swept under the rug like its no big deal. i ran a defense my team doesn't know and had my best defensive game.....thats alarming.

what was shocking about it? they only won by 11.

agree on the beta testing thing... but i've pretty much lost all hope on that front

read and do a little research before posting. i ran a defense that my team has no knowledge of and held the opposing team to the lowest field goal percentage of any other opponent this season. not shocking? get real.

you added a half court press and held the opponent, at home, to 43%/33%, and forced 9 turnovers. what a mockery of justice!! you get real

ok billy boy......

Posted by uglyskunk3 on 2/23/2011 5:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dacj501 on 2/23/2011 5:43:00 PM (view original):
dude, you didn't do that though. you ran a combo. half the combo was your primary defense, which you know well...

ETA: and, you stated that your team's knowledge of press was like C-  That's hardly no knowledge...

yah i said i ran combo plenty of times in the thread. thanks for reading. 

ok, so I took my post down, but not in time. I suspected you were just a whiny b**** troll, but now I know for sure. Don't know how you can't see that the zone part of the combo is what held your opponent to that %... GL. <blocked>

besides, skunk, if you've been around the block a few times, you'd know that the half court press can be surprisingly effective with low iq. it is designed NOT to require the same level of iq as other defenses. this has been brought up pretty many times. nothing to see here...

Posted by coach_billyg on 2/23/2011 5:48:00 PM (view original):
also, for the first time, you ran slowdown - creating a small sample size for that game. and that is out of a total of 4 games. i mean come on! with sample size like that, you need something A LOT more impressive than 43%/33% and forcing a grand total of 9 turnovers (the primary benefit of the press being turnovers), before you call it "shocking".

we all know its one game genius, i'm just pointing out how odd it was. i didn't say it was a slam dunk that its proof the press is godly again. but it is shocking that it worked. 

Posted by uglyskunk3 on 2/23/2011 5:48:00 PM (view original):

Posted by coach_billyg on 2/23/2011 5:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by uglyskunk3 on 2/23/2011 5:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by coach_billyg on 2/23/2011 5:22:00 PM (view original):

Posted by uglyskunk3 on 2/23/2011 2:47:00 PM (view original):
maybe so mduncan. it would've been nice to have beta tested these changes. still surprised no one has commented about the shocking results of the stanford game. i know its one game, but it shouldn't be swept under the rug like its no big deal. i ran a defense my team doesn't know and had my best defensive game.....thats alarming.

what was shocking about it? they only won by 11.

agree on the beta testing thing... but i've pretty much lost all hope on that front

read and do a little research before posting. i ran a defense that my team has no knowledge of and held the opposing team to the lowest field goal percentage of any other opponent this season. not shocking? get real.

you added a half court press and held the opponent, at home, to 43%/33%, and forced 9 turnovers. what a mockery of justice!! you get real

ok billy boy......

i am quite sure it is obvious to everybody else reading this how unsurprising your situation was... hence why nobody commented on the "shocking" nature of it. if you really cannot see this, you are not half - neigh, not a quarter, of the coach you make yourself out to be

Posted by coach_billyg on 2/23/2011 5:49:00 PM (view original):
besides, skunk, if you've been around the block a few times, you'd know that the half court press can be surprisingly effective with low iq. it is designed NOT to require the same level of iq as other defenses. this has been brought up pretty many times. nothing to see here...

oh please don't give me that as an excuse. the fact of the matter is that a defense that my team doesn't know, hasn't practice should not hold up better then the one they know against a superior team is worth noting. your just being a .........(you can fill in the blank)