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pjbrankin
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What have I been doing wrong my first two games with St. Johns? I can maybe see losing that first one, but I can't explain a 15 point loss in the second game(all due respect to mike). Too many turnovers, way too many fouls, giving up a ton of points, etc.
3/11/2011 2:29 PM
buddhagamer
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I don't have the experience that other coaches have on these boards so take my opinion for what it's worth, but your team seems to lack the BH/Pass to allow you to play uptempo versus a FCP/FB team.  By playing uptempo, your telling your players to try and speed up play and against his FCP/FB team you didn't have enough of a Speed/Sta advantage to overcome the lack of BH/Pass which led to a large number of turnovers/fouls/etc.

I rarely play uptempo against the FCP/FB combo unless I have a clear speed/sta advantage and I have a good pass/BH team.  I'd play either normal tempo or even slow-down depending on how those factors compare.

3/11/2011 2:48 PM
pjbrankin
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that makes sense. although in the first game he didn't use a FB or FCP
3/11/2011 5:07 PM
girt25
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Posted by pjbrankin on 3/11/2011 2:29:00 PM (view original):
What have I been doing wrong my first two games with St. Johns? I can maybe see losing that first one, but I can't explain a 15 point loss in the second game(all due respect to mike). Too many turnovers, way too many fouls, giving up a ton of points, etc.
pj ... for starters, you played a 3-2, plus defense vs. a team that isn't a good 3pt shooting team, and they absolutely battered you inside and driving to the hoop. That in itself was enough to lose you the game. Offensively, you gave almost all your distro to your guards, despite the fact that fcp is most vulnerable to scoring by big men.

Basically, you had a really terrible gameplan. (Sorry, I know that's harsh.)
3/11/2011 5:47 PM (edited)
girt25
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Posted by buddhagamer on 3/11/2011 2:48:00 PM (view original):

I don't have the experience that other coaches have on these boards so take my opinion for what it's worth, but your team seems to lack the BH/Pass to allow you to play uptempo versus a FCP/FB team.  By playing uptempo, your telling your players to try and speed up play and against his FCP/FB team you didn't have enough of a Speed/Sta advantage to overcome the lack of BH/Pass which led to a large number of turnovers/fouls/etc.

I rarely play uptempo against the FCP/FB combo unless I have a clear speed/sta advantage and I have a good pass/BH team.  I'd play either normal tempo or even slow-down depending on how those factors compare.

I agree that he's lacking in bh/pa and that doesn't equate to a great fcp matchup. That said, I think he was right to go uptempo, because zone commits fewer fouls and press commits more, and I would expect a nice differential from the line. (And he did take 10 more ft's.)
3/11/2011 5:41 PM
pjbrankin
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Girt, thanks for the input. I understand what you're saying but he shot 17 threes in his first game and has no inside scoring threats whatsoever. I felt like if I could take away the three point shot I would win. And shouldn't it be more difficult to drive to the hope against a 3- 2 zone, not easier? What do you think explains all my fouls and turnovers?

3/11/2011 6:32 PM (edited)
buddhagamer
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3-2 zone has 3 defenders on the perimeter so it is usually used against 3pt shooting teams (but has only 2 defenders in the paint).  2-3 zone has 3 defenders in the paint and is better versus teams trying to pound the ball inside.

Also just because he doesn't have a big man who you consider a scoring threat, it doesn't mean that his perimeter players can't shoot mid-range shots (just not 3 pt ones) or drive to the hoop especially if you play a 3-2 zone AND set it to PLUS positioning (that's just asking them to push the ball inside on you).
3/11/2011 7:05 PM
nachopuzzle
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Posted by girt25 on 3/11/2011 5:47:00 PM (view original):
Posted by pjbrankin on 3/11/2011 2:29:00 PM (view original):
What have I been doing wrong my first two games with St. Johns? I can maybe see losing that first one, but I can't explain a 15 point loss in the second game(all due respect to mike). Too many turnovers, way too many fouls, giving up a ton of points, etc.
pj ... for starters, you played a 3-2, plus defense vs. a team that isn't a good 3pt shooting team, and they absolutely battered you inside and driving to the hoop. That in itself was enough to lose you the game. Offensively, you gave almost all your distro to your guards, despite the fact that fcp is most vulnerable to scoring by big men.

Basically, you had a really terrible gameplan. (Sorry, I know that's harsh.)
Concerning what you said about the fcp being most vulnerable to scoring by big men, I would tend to disagree with you on this point. I feel as though mainly the SF and SG get the largest advantage against the fcp. In my humble opinion.   
3/11/2011 7:15 PM
pjbrankin
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Posted by buddhagamer on 3/11/2011 7:05:00 PM (view original):
3-2 zone has 3 defenders on the perimeter so it is usually used against 3pt shooting teams (but has only 2 defenders in the paint).  2-3 zone has 3 defenders in the paint and is better versus teams trying to pound the ball inside.

Also just because he doesn't have a big man who you consider a scoring threat, it doesn't mean that his perimeter players can't shoot mid-range shots (just not 3 pt ones) or drive to the hoop especially if you play a 3-2 zone AND set it to PLUS positioning (that's just asking them to push the ball inside on you).
my understanding has always been that it's harder to penetrate a zone defense than a man defense, and I guess I sort of extended that and thought that a 3-2 zone is harder to penetrate than a 2-3 zone. Am I way off base?
3/11/2011 8:14 PM
bradriddell
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when useing a 3-2 just remember if the perimeter player gets past the man directly in front of him its just like having a 3 on 2 fast break so yes going positive with a 3-2 will give the 4 and 5 positions easy buckets and will also create many more fouls. A 3-2 is designed to be better against the outside than a 2-3 but it is still weak against the outside game and by going + out of it it makes up for the perimiter weakness but creates huge driving lanes. It's 3 ways to score perimeter, low post, and on the drive a basic zone weakens 2 of the 3 the drive and low post. By going positive it gives the drive and the low post back while only moderately helping against the perimeter.
3/12/2011 3:18 PM
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