What to do with James Saltzman... Topic

zbrent716
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Posted by ephi287 on 3/26/2011 12:01:00 PM (view original):
You all realize these are not real people, right?   LOL      Arguing the pros and cons of whether his parents would shell out more money, non-athletic scholarships, etc.     Thanks for the entertainment.
And thank you for the useful, on-topic, contribution!  
3/26/2011 12:21 PM
bow2dacowz
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Posted by ephi287 on 3/26/2011 12:01:00 PM (view original):
You all realize these are not real people, right?   LOL      Arguing the pros and cons of whether his parents would shell out more money, non-athletic scholarships, etc.     Thanks for the entertainment.
and youre an idiot if you can't tell the difference between "arguing the pros and cons of whether his parents would shell out more money"  and a discussion about why someone could or could not easily persuade a player to take a redshirt in real life application of a similar situation.

so, thanks for the entertainment.
3/26/2011 1:19 PM
bow2dacowz
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Posted by zbrent716 on 3/26/2011 10:07:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bow2dacowz on 3/26/2011 9:12:00 AM (view original):
Posted by zbrent716 on 3/26/2011 4:09:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bow2dacowz on 3/26/2011 1:38:00 AM (view original):
just my opinion but trying to redshirt a senior who is one of the best players in the country would never happen in real life and it shouldn't happen here. 

again, just my opinion.
In real life, I actually am pretty sure I could convince the guy given the chance. I mean, he's D3 (great D3, but still d3), so he's not going to the NBA. This is probably the peak of his basketball career.
 
I don't think it'd be a hard sell convincing him to sit a season (but be with the team), spend an extra year in college (who wouldn't love that), pick up a master's degree in physical education so he can coach HS when he's done playing, and maximize his chances to win a national title.
having worked in college athletics, all i can say is good luck convincing a kid to shell out an extra 30,000+ of his parents money.  nevermind the fact that if i was one of the other kids on the team, i'd be a little ticked that you were trying to tank my junior or senior season (or any season for that matter given what i'm paying to be there) so you could have a shot at personal glory in your job that pays you $22,000 a year.
1) He's on (non-athletic, since it's D 3) scholarship even if he's red-shirted, so if he ends up spending $30,000+ of his parents' money it's on something other than tuition and he's probably spending a year of college living a bit like a pimp. Besides, you really have trouble convincing a 21-year-old to spend his *any* of his parents' money? Your powers of persuasion are lacking.
 
2) There are no other seniors-to-be on the team, so everyone who was on the team for the "tanked" junior year (where we'll still compete for the conference title and win 20+ games) will reap the benefits of the maximized NT chances.
again it's fine to argue #1 for purposes of this game since we offer kids "scholarships" even at D3.  my point is that in real life this wouldn't be realistic so i dont like that it could happen here because  players simply don't get full non athletic scholarships to small crappy schools like hamline or 95% of the other small D3 schools on here...especially not with a 2.8 gpa..  i dont  expect a completely realistic experience in this sim, but i just think it's pushing the limits of exploiting the system that is in place.  if he didn't want to take a redshirt so be it, you can't force it upon him, and you wouldn't if it were  a real kid.  you had a chance during recruiting to ensure he'd take it and you didn't take advantage of it.  

it doesnt bother me to the point im going to whine about it if you choose to do it, or send tickets to the game masters and complain.  i dont care that much.  just stating and supporting my opinion.  you have a different one, and i'm ok with that too.
3/26/2011 1:26 PM
tianyi7886
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Do D3 programs ever redshirt players? I know for a fact that you cannot redshirt in D3 football, not sure about basketball. Anyways, I'm pretty sure no one will take a redshirt and stay an additional year in college to play for a D3 basketball program. What's the point, to delay your life for an additional year so you can play some ball?
3/26/2011 6:02 PM
zbrent716
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Posted by tianyi7886 on 3/26/2011 6:02:00 PM (view original):
Do D3 programs ever redshirt players? I know for a fact that you cannot redshirt in D3 football, not sure about basketball. Anyways, I'm pretty sure no one will take a redshirt and stay an additional year in college to play for a D3 basketball program. What's the point, to delay your life for an additional year so you can play some ball?

Well, I said he could pick up his phys ed. master's so he can be a HS gym/basketball coach, but even if he couldn't... sure, that's exatcly the point.

I'm guessing you (like me) are at least a few years removed from college age, but I work in a university setting now and deal with undergrads and I can assure you that most of them are in no rush to finish college and join the real world. Most would welcome the opportunity to "delay [their] lives" for a year to play some ball and not grow up just yet (and I can't say I'd blame them).

3/26/2011 6:39 PM
tianyi7886
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Posted by zbrent716 on 3/26/2011 6:39:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tianyi7886 on 3/26/2011 6:02:00 PM (view original):
Do D3 programs ever redshirt players? I know for a fact that you cannot redshirt in D3 football, not sure about basketball. Anyways, I'm pretty sure no one will take a redshirt and stay an additional year in college to play for a D3 basketball program. What's the point, to delay your life for an additional year so you can play some ball?

Well, I said he could pick up his phys ed. master's so he can be a HS gym/basketball coach, but even if he couldn't... sure, that's exatcly the point.

I'm guessing you (like me) are at least a few years removed from college age, but I work in a university setting now and deal with undergrads and I can assure you that most of them are in no rush to finish college and join the real world. Most would welcome the opportunity to "delay [their] lives" for a year to play some ball and not grow up just yet (and I can't say I'd blame them).

Well, looks like you can't redshirt in D3 basketball in real life:

http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2006/01/09/dodging-a-bullet-on-redshirts/
3/26/2011 6:43 PM
tianyi7886
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"Two years ago, Division III members voted to eliminate the practice of redshirting except for medical reasons. While previously granted redshirts would be honored, no new ones would be awarded. The legislation was part of a package of measures designed to provide more common ground among the 425-plus schools in Division III, some of which came relatively recently from the NAIA and brought with them values that werem’t practiced by the majority of schools."
3/26/2011 6:43 PM
zbrent716
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2010-2011 NCAA Division III Manual

14.2.2.3.1.1 Circumstances Beyond Control.

Circumstances considered to be beyond the control of the student-athlete or the institution and do not cause a participation opportunity to be used shall include, but are not limited to, the following: (Adopted: 8/10/94, Revised: 10/12/95)(a) Situations clearly supported by contemporaneous medical documentation, which states that a student-athlete is unable to participate in intercollegiate competition as a result of incapacitating physical or mental circumstances;

By an amazing coincidence, Dr. Sigmund Fraud (Hamline's team physician) is prepared to diagnose Salzman with Major Depressive Disorder (Unipolar Depression), a diagnosis that is based (word-for-word, what an amazing coincidence) on the DSM IV entry. As such, he will be shown to have incapacitating mental circumstances (and we have evidence of it on the court, too, from the boneheaded plays he's made this season) that prevent him from participating in intercollegiate competition next year. As this mental circumstance is beyond the control of both the student and Hamline University, it allows for the opportunity for Salzman to use his 4th year of eligibility the following season, should the parties involved determine that is the best course of action.

3/26/2011 7:02 PM
tianyi7886
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Posted by zbrent716 on 3/26/2011 6:39:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tianyi7886 on 3/26/2011 6:02:00 PM (view original):
Do D3 programs ever redshirt players? I know for a fact that you cannot redshirt in D3 football, not sure about basketball. Anyways, I'm pretty sure no one will take a redshirt and stay an additional year in college to play for a D3 basketball program. What's the point, to delay your life for an additional year so you can play some ball?

Well, I said he could pick up his phys ed. master's so he can be a HS gym/basketball coach, but even if he couldn't... sure, that's exatcly the point.

I'm guessing you (like me) are at least a few years removed from college age, but I work in a university setting now and deal with undergrads and I can assure you that most of them are in no rush to finish college and join the real world. Most would welcome the opportunity to "delay [their] lives" for a year to play some ball and not grow up just yet (and I can't say I'd blame them).

Maybe people just have different priorities. I don't think any of the basketball or football players I went to school with would delay a year of grad school, spend the year they were planning to travel, or a year to work, for a 5th year of school just so they can play a sport that will not be their life.
3/26/2011 7:13 PM
zbrent716
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Posted by tianyi7886 on 3/26/2011 7:13:00 PM (view original):
Posted by zbrent716 on 3/26/2011 6:39:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tianyi7886 on 3/26/2011 6:02:00 PM (view original):
Do D3 programs ever redshirt players? I know for a fact that you cannot redshirt in D3 football, not sure about basketball. Anyways, I'm pretty sure no one will take a redshirt and stay an additional year in college to play for a D3 basketball program. What's the point, to delay your life for an additional year so you can play some ball?

Well, I said he could pick up his phys ed. master's so he can be a HS gym/basketball coach, but even if he couldn't... sure, that's exatcly the point.

I'm guessing you (like me) are at least a few years removed from college age, but I work in a university setting now and deal with undergrads and I can assure you that most of them are in no rush to finish college and join the real world. Most would welcome the opportunity to "delay [their] lives" for a year to play some ball and not grow up just yet (and I can't say I'd blame them).

Maybe people just have different priorities. I don't think any of the basketball or football players I went to school with would delay a year of grad school, spend the year they were planning to travel, or a year to work, for a 5th year of school just so they can play a sport that will not be their life.
He's attending grad school during that "extra" year.

Hamline University has an excellent School of Education, including a Master of Art in Teaching with a K-12 Physical Education focus option.
3/26/2011 7:26 PM
tianyi7886
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I thought we were having a serious discussion about whether a D3 player would ever take a RS for that 5th year, because you said the people you work with in your university would gladly do so to delay the real world. 
3/26/2011 7:29 PM
zbrent716
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Posted by tianyi7886 on 3/26/2011 7:29:00 PM (view original):
I thought we were having a serious discussion about whether a D3 player would ever take a RS for that 5th year, because you said the people you work with in your university would gladly do so to delay the real world. 
Quite a few would, although to be fair it is a D1 university and the people in question are part of the general population (rather than exclusively student-athletes).
3/26/2011 8:00 PM
brokerpoker
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After thinking about this for a while.....I think you should sit him tonight to think about all of this.
3/26/2011 8:07 PM
jkline
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in 2002, UC Riverside redshirted a player named Vili Morton after his sophomore season, after he won defensive player of the year award in the Big West and was already considered one of the top big men in the conference.  It was a move specifically geared to prepare UCR to compete for a Big West title three years down the road, after freshman Nate Carter had two years to develop.  Carter was the first big recruit UCR ever signed and it seemed like Morton had a lot of upside, so they figured their best chance to win a Big West title was if they could get Morton as a senior to team with Carter as a junior.  Unfortunately, Carter transfered to Oklahoma after his sophomore year and Morton was never fully healthy enough to live up to his potential after the redshirt year.  Clearly, though, it can happen where one of the best players in a conference, who is not a freshman, at D1 will accept a redshirt for the sake of aligning a team to compete in the future. 

FWIW, if I had a player as amazing as Saltzman, I would be terrified that he would transfer and wouldn't take much of a risk with him.  I will be interested to see how this scenario plays out. Good luck.
3/28/2011 7:30 AM (edited)
johnmacdan
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I wouldn't worry about maxing out his ratings.  He is already an all american.  If you want to have him for the next year then redshirt him now so you don't take a chance on losing him to 1 min of time in the 14th game of the year.  With his current stats, he will be good enough to excell with a low WE.  GL!
3/30/2011 5:52 PM
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