Oh, I am quite aware it matters, and I know this won't be a good year regardless, but I want to limit the damage.  That defense is the main reason I'm starting Hays.  I figure he can at least give me another defender that might help.   And at least Fontaine does have a pretty good block rating.  Also. . I think part of the reason for my rebound disparity lies in the fact that I am just not shooting at the same level as my opponents.  When you factor it out as a percentage(My defensive rebounds divided by my defensive rebounds plus their offensive rebounds) and the reverse for them, the percentage is pretty much equal with the difference being sue to an opportunity difference: I am shooting .455 to their .466.  Not a strong rebounding team at any rate, and your point is taken - been running a base 2 - 3 and playing with the plus minus settings all but one game this season.  Just was trying to figure out if helping out with defense in the guards would be worth as much as helping the Bigs with rebounding.

 

THis recruitment(Hays and Klein both have high potential in DEF) was largely concentrated on defense(Hoping Marden will end up in the mid to upper thirties) and next one will be largely concentrating on defense and rebounding, and someone in the post with speed.

Starting those freshmen will hurt you.

Not a tournament quality team anyhow, this year.  But even then, Hays> Crocker, I think, for SF.

Posted by 4green2 on 3/28/2011 9:47:00 AM (view original):

So, based on posts I have seen I get the impression that the consensus is that in Zone the players are averaged as far as defense:  In the three two or two three, the ones in the three are averaged and the ones in the two.  So for example, in a three two the SF is averaged in with the guards and in the 2 - 3 the SF is averaged in with the posts.    In that case, based on Brandeis's roster, which set should I run out of?  Since Klein is playing down low and has a good defense/ATH and Fontaine has a good BLK, I am almost inclined to go 3 - 2 so that Hays and his 'good'(For this team) defense is averaged in to help the guards?

 

I don't think that is correct.  The players are not averaged.  Each possession is treated like a random asignment, the odds of a player getting the asignment depends on whether the shot is inside or outside and what type of zone is deployed. I addressed this in more detail in the other thread concerning your Brandeis team.  I suppose that over time, the effect of a zone is sort of like an average but that is not how it works.

jkline - i've never heard any of the HD Admins (Tarek nor seble) explain zone this way, but I've always sort of imagined in this way as well.  even in a zone, I still try to match up my players based on how I think the assignments will work most often - especially on defense but even on offense when I'm facing a zone.  you can sort of "hide" a bad defender over the course of a game, but you might not be able to do so on many possessions.

Posted by girt25 on 3/28/2011 11:46:00 AM (view original):
Starting those freshmen will hurt you.

Um, wrong sir. You sir seem to be under the impression that you have to win as many games as you can every season. That's all fine and dandy, but how will you ever develop a team that is above mediocre? By starting frosh one season, they will be better the next season, and by the time they are juniors and seniors the program will take off (in theory, since it depends on every recruiting class) and your teams should be good year in and year out. It may take a season or two, but developing these players into cornerstones of the program, you are able to establish a dynasty, because more and more good recruits will be attracted to you.

Posted by summerteeth on 3/29/2011 4:30:00 PM (view original):
jkline - i've never heard any of the HD Admins (Tarek nor seble) explain zone this way, but I've always sort of imagined in this way as well.  even in a zone, I still try to match up my players based on how I think the assignments will work most often - especially on defense but even on offense when I'm facing a zone.  you can sort of "hide" a bad defender over the course of a game, but you might not be able to do so on many possessions.

I think I read that in a developer's chat, but I am not sure.  If somebody else cn confirm or contradict it with proof, I would appreciate it.  I am not going to spend the time to check it myself.

Posted by jkline on 3/28/2011 6:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by 4green2 on 3/28/2011 9:47:00 AM (view original):

So, based on posts I have seen I get the impression that the consensus is that in Zone the players are averaged as far as defense:  In the three two or two three, the ones in the three are averaged and the ones in the two.  So for example, in a three two the SF is averaged in with the guards and in the 2 - 3 the SF is averaged in with the posts.    In that case, based on Brandeis's roster, which set should I run out of?  Since Klein is playing down low and has a good defense/ATH and Fontaine has a good BLK, I am almost inclined to go 3 - 2 so that Hays and his 'good'(For this team) defense is averaged in to help the guards?

 

I don't think that is correct.  The players are not averaged.  Each possession is treated like a random asignment, the odds of a player getting the asignment depends on whether the shot is inside or outside and what type of zone is deployed. I addressed this in more detail in the other thread concerning your Brandeis team.  I suppose that over time, the effect of a zone is sort of like an average but that is not how it works.

Would that effect extend to one on one matchups like rebounding as well?  In other words, when the computer is comparing rebound ratings, does it randomly decide who the player is matched up against like with defense, or is that still positional?

Posted by jkline on 3/30/2011 7:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by summerteeth on 3/29/2011 4:30:00 PM (view original):
jkline - i've never heard any of the HD Admins (Tarek nor seble) explain zone this way, but I've always sort of imagined in this way as well.  even in a zone, I still try to match up my players based on how I think the assignments will work most often - especially on defense but even on offense when I'm facing a zone.  you can sort of "hide" a bad defender over the course of a game, but you might not be able to do so on many possessions.

I think I read that in a developer's chat, but I am not sure.  If somebody else cn confirm or contradict it with proof, I would appreciate it.  I am not going to spend the time to check it myself.

I asked this in a ticket a while ago and it seemed to be confirmed that it works in this way (random assignment).  That was a first response, though, and we all know that there can be some issues with the reliability of responses from first-line CS...

Posted by 4green2 on 3/28/2011 9:33:00 AM (view original):
Still coming to the conclusion that the key to playing, and beating, a zone lies in the SF.

That's been my experience.

Posted by caesari on 3/29/2011 8:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by girt25 on 3/28/2011 11:46:00 AM (view original):
Starting those freshmen will hurt you.

Um, wrong sir. You sir seem to be under the impression that you have to win as many games as you can every season. That's all fine and dandy, but how will you ever develop a team that is above mediocre? By starting frosh one season, they will be better the next season, and by the time they are juniors and seniors the program will take off (in theory, since it depends on every recruiting class) and your teams should be good year in and year out. It may take a season or two, but developing these players into cornerstones of the program, you are able to establish a dynasty, because more and more good recruits will be attracted to you.

sarcasm?

Posted by ryandaniel on 4/1/2011 9:03:00 AM (view original):

Posted by jkline on 3/28/2011 6:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by 4green2 on 3/28/2011 9:47:00 AM (view original):

So, based on posts I have seen I get the impression that the consensus is that in Zone the players are averaged as far as defense:  In the three two or two three, the ones in the three are averaged and the ones in the two.  So for example, in a three two the SF is averaged in with the guards and in the 2 - 3 the SF is averaged in with the posts.    In that case, based on Brandeis's roster, which set should I run out of?  Since Klein is playing down low and has a good defense/ATH and Fontaine has a good BLK, I am almost inclined to go 3 - 2 so that Hays and his 'good'(For this team) defense is averaged in to help the guards?

 

I don't think that is correct.  The players are not averaged.  Each possession is treated like a random asignment, the odds of a player getting the asignment depends on whether the shot is inside or outside and what type of zone is deployed. I addressed this in more detail in the other thread concerning your Brandeis team.  I suppose that over time, the effect of a zone is sort of like an average but that is not how it works.

Would that effect extend to one on one matchups like rebounding as well?  In other words, when the computer is comparing rebound ratings, does it randomly decide who the player is matched up against like with defense, or is that still positional?

I don't know, and since you may have a hard time getting an answer from someone who does know, I will profer to guess that it does not extend to rebounding matchups as well.  The reason I guess that is because I presume the engine is not that sophisticated.  I could be wrong.  When in doubt, I just figure the simpler option is more likely. All I know for sure is that zone is weaker at defensive rebounding than man-to-man.  So, however the matchups are figured, there will be some penalty factored in for a rebounder in a zone compared to a rebounder in a man configuration.