Posted by arssanguinus on 3/29/2011 2:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by johnmacdan on 3/29/2011 11:21:00 AM (view original):

Posted by hughesjr on 3/29/2011 8:25:00 AM (view original):
Why should it be as easy to win at Cleveland State as it is for Purdue?

Shouldn't it be easier to recruit from a Big 6 school than from a Mid Major?

Do we want the Div-1 game to be 324 teams where each team has the same chance to win / recruit ... or do we want it to model real life where the McDonalds All Americans congregate at teams like Kentucky, Duke, North Carolina, Kansas, Texas, etc.

I am just starting out in Div-1, but I do not expect my Dartmouth or IUPUI team to be able to recruit as well as Indiana or Syracuse.  Do we really want that to be able to happen?

This is "What If" sports.  I don't want model of real life unless that is how the owners of each team make it.  I want to know" What If" a group of guys decided to make a major powerhouse out of the Ivy league.  I want to be able to compete or fail at any school because of the choices I make and the choices that the other owners make that I am competing directly against.  Not because of what 10 other owners did to get that owner more money to spend or because his conference has more owners and mine has more Sim Ai coaches.  I can't control who plays and there is no incentive to stay in a conference where there are only a couple of owners.

The way I would like to see it is if I am a B prestige then I should be equal to any other B school, have a slight disadvantage to a B+ and a slight advantage over a B-.  If I choose the right prospect and spend more wisely than a B, B+ or even A- prestiqe school then I should get that recruit.  It should be determined on whether there is an underlying bias against my conference or for another conference.  I would like to see all schools on equal footing and let that team's owner decide their fate.   

THe problem with that, John, is that if you take away the advantages that Duke, say, has over Princeton are you really fulfilling your 'Whatif"?  You are saying instead "What if Princeton had the Athletic budget of Duke and Duke had no advantages, and Duke wasn't really Duke and Princeton wasn't really Princeton"  If there is no relation to real life at all, then you aren't playing 'What if' with the real world but 'what if" with a world that bears no relationship whatsoever to reality.  Is turning Princeton into a powerhouse really anything special if there are no disadvantages to Princeton?

 

 

I see what you're saying and I guess it is what you are looking for in the game.  I want to pit my skills against other owners, not be the best because I was the first owner to grab Duke.  I like taking smaller schools and bringing them up to the level of the real life big boys.  As it is now, that isn't really possible.  

My experience is that it was possible at one time.  I have W KY in one world.  Made the NT a couple of times, but we are down to 3 owners now.  We don't have the ability to generate the recruiting money other conferences do regardless how well we do.  I certainly wouldn't want to penalize anyone for doing well, but why should someone be given anything if they don't make the tournament, but 7 other schools from their conference do? 

Put it this way:  If all the teams are going to be on equal footing, why even give them real world names?

Posted by johnmacdan on 3/29/2011 4:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by arssanguinus on 3/29/2011 2:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by johnmacdan on 3/29/2011 11:21:00 AM (view original):

Posted by hughesjr on 3/29/2011 8:25:00 AM (view original):
Why should it be as easy to win at Cleveland State as it is for Purdue?

Shouldn't it be easier to recruit from a Big 6 school than from a Mid Major?

Do we want the Div-1 game to be 324 teams where each team has the same chance to win / recruit ... or do we want it to model real life where the McDonalds All Americans congregate at teams like Kentucky, Duke, North Carolina, Kansas, Texas, etc.

I am just starting out in Div-1, but I do not expect my Dartmouth or IUPUI team to be able to recruit as well as Indiana or Syracuse.  Do we really want that to be able to happen?

This is "What If" sports.  I don't want model of real life unless that is how the owners of each team make it.  I want to know" What If" a group of guys decided to make a major powerhouse out of the Ivy league.  I want to be able to compete or fail at any school because of the choices I make and the choices that the other owners make that I am competing directly against.  Not because of what 10 other owners did to get that owner more money to spend or because his conference has more owners and mine has more Sim Ai coaches.  I can't control who plays and there is no incentive to stay in a conference where there are only a couple of owners.

The way I would like to see it is if I am a B prestige then I should be equal to any other B school, have a slight disadvantage to a B+ and a slight advantage over a B-.  If I choose the right prospect and spend more wisely than a B, B+ or even A- prestiqe school then I should get that recruit.  It should be determined on whether there is an underlying bias against my conference or for another conference.  I would like to see all schools on equal footing and let that team's owner decide their fate.   

THe problem with that, John, is that if you take away the advantages that Duke, say, has over Princeton are you really fulfilling your 'Whatif"?  You are saying instead "What if Princeton had the Athletic budget of Duke and Duke had no advantages, and Duke wasn't really Duke and Princeton wasn't really Princeton"  If there is no relation to real life at all, then you aren't playing 'What if' with the real world but 'what if" with a world that bears no relationship whatsoever to reality.  Is turning Princeton into a powerhouse really anything special if there are no disadvantages to Princeton?

 

 

I see what you're saying and I guess it is what you are looking for in the game.  I want to pit my skills against other owners, not be the best because I was the first owner to grab Duke.  I like taking smaller schools and bringing them up to the level of the real life big boys.  As it is now, that isn't really possible.  

My experience is that it was possible at one time.  I have W KY in one world.  Made the NT a couple of times, but we are down to 3 owners now.  We don't have the ability to generate the recruiting money other conferences do regardless how well we do.  I certainly wouldn't want to penalize anyone for doing well, but why should someone be given anything if they don't make the tournament, but 7 other schools from their conference do? 

Posted by hoosierchap on 3/29/2011 4:02:00 PM (view original):
Dan, thanks for your concern, but we are doing fine against the evil empire in Allen.  While it would be nice for the HD gods to shine on Baton Rouge or Gainesville, that is not where the problem lies.  We just think that the continued imbalance is bad for DI HD as a whole.  If we were really concerned with the ACC in Allen, we would quit and play in the other worlds that exist.          

Everyone has noticed a decline in DI participation.  Conferences outside of the big 6 are basically all sim and for the most part void of talent.  I think that waiting half a year to see if the new recruits change anything is way too long.  There needs to be more bones thrown to encourage more to play at the mid-majors.   Right now there is no real reason to stay at a mid-major unless you like to recruit and play the regular season against a bunch of sims.  An increase in the recruiting pool would help, but I think more needs to be done.

As I have mentioned before the fact that you have a D+ school has little relevance.  Other than you like the challenge which I applaud you for. 

Posted by girt25 on 3/29/2011 5:09:00 PM (view original):

Posted by hoosierchap on 3/29/2011 4:02:00 PM (view original):
Dan, thanks for your concern, but we are doing fine against the evil empire in Allen.  While it would be nice for the HD gods to shine on Baton Rouge or Gainesville, that is not where the problem lies.  We just think that the continued imbalance is bad for DI HD as a whole.  If we were really concerned with the ACC in Allen, we would quit and play in the other worlds that exist.          

Everyone has noticed a decline in DI participation.  Conferences outside of the big 6 are basically all sim and for the most part void of talent.  I think that waiting half a year to see if the new recruits change anything is way too long.  There needs to be more bones thrown to encourage more to play at the mid-majors.   Right now there is no real reason to stay at a mid-major unless you like to recruit and play the regular season against a bunch of sims.  An increase in the recruiting pool would help, but I think more needs to be done.

As I have mentioned before the fact that you have a D+ school has little relevance.  Other than you like the challenge which I applaud you for. 

You're doing fine against the Evil Empire? Then what's been all the hubbub on your CC? Come on ...

I wholeheartedly agree that the current imbalance is bad for HD as a whole. No one has voiced that opinion more consistently or loudly over the last year or more than I have.

The recruiting change is what has crippled low/mid DI. Again, when the recruiting balance was better, the recruiting cash wasn't a major issue -- certainly not significant enough to prevent lots of low/mids from doing extremely well.

So knowing that model worked extremely well for non-elites with the current cash structure in place, why would we doubt that fixing recruit generation would yield much the same result as we had before?

Posted by reinsel on 3/29/2011 5:42:00 PM (view original):
The other thing I wonder is if coaching skill had something to do with it.  In all seriousness, a lot of the top coaches left the mid-majors in allen, and then they went south.  Not the other way around.  So maybe if there were just better coaches there, it would be ok?  I can't tell, but girt you have a D+ prestige team, how bleak is it?

A lot depends on the world. In Naismith, Only 2 of the top 25, and zero of the top 16 rpis are from non power conferences. This year there is one team( George Washington) in the Sweet 16. Last year there was also only one. However in Rupp, 4 of the top 12 rpis, and 7 of the top 25 are from non big 6 conferences. 4 of those are in the A10, and there are a few teamsfrom "mid-majors" who make deep tourney runs each year. There is also a bunch of coaches who have just moved to CUSA including some of the legends who jumped up from the d2 "mega bowl". There are some really good coaches in this world, but one other factor in this is the fact that most big 6 conferences in rupp have at least a couple of sims. If you take any conference FULL of decent coaches , (I won't get into the BS of baseline prestige here)regardless of the conference, decent tourney money will come your way.

Now comes the blatant self conf hype: Come check out the A10 and join us in Rupp. Fight the power.

Posted by reinsel on 3/29/2011 5:42:00 PM (view original):
The other thing I wonder is if coaching skill had something to do with it.  In all seriousness, a lot of the top coaches left the mid-majors in allen, and then they went south.  Not the other way around.  So maybe if there were just better coaches there, it would be ok?  I can't tell, but girt you have a D+ prestige team, how bleak is it?