Posted by arssanguinus on 4/11/2011 11:33:00 AM (view original):
I would reserve judgement;  what matters in the long run is not the absolute numerical value of the recruits the d2 teams can get, but the relative balance among all d2 teams.

I think that's mostly true, but again, if there are a bunch of ranked guys that aren't being touched -- not good enough for DI, not recruitable for D2 -- then I do think they should revisit. Don't know whether that's even the case, just saying if it is, it's something they need to look at and tweak.

I would think that the biggest thing to do is improve how the sim's recruit.  Say have the high d1 sims reserve enough 'credit' to go after the untouched ranked players at the end.

Either way, no disagreement.  I just don't quite agree with the "I was able to get players rated X before and can only get players rated Y now, therefore, problem."  Not that simple.

I think they have changed the sims to recruit a bit at the end of the recruiting period.  Keep an eye on some of the ones that have open slots as recruiting winds down tonight.

Going to check right before 11 pm cycle tonight. Very interested to see if that 24% of ranked players not being considered are taken by sims or late charging humans. Would be great if admin made it harder for d2 teams to recruit ranked so there would be less walk ons, sim teams picking them up and being better overall. Would love to see it a reality since that has been a major forum complaint.

I don't know if this is a universal pattern, but across d2 in Phelan, Simai teams have considering them almost as a rule enough recruits to fill half of their empty slots.  Do they try to fill half early and half late?

Posted by arssanguinus on 4/11/2011 1:20:00 PM (view original):
I would think that the biggest thing to do is improve how the sim's recruit.  Say have the high d1 sims reserve enough 'credit' to go after the untouched ranked players at the end.

Either way, no disagreement.  I just don't quite agree with the "I was able to get players rated X before and can only get players rated Y now, therefore, problem."  Not that simple.

Yep, I think we're on the same page here.

Posted by tianyi7886 on 4/11/2011 12:35:00 PM (view original):
You are aiming kind of high with C- prestige, which explains why 70% of the recruits rejected your phone call. The 450-480 range is what I generally go for with my A+ programs, and once in a blue moon, I would take on in the 480-490 range.

I'm doing C- rebuild in Naismith too and I only got about a 50% response and I was aiming in the 410-450 range. 

I was using Weena's formula - look at the highest 4-year player in your division and then add 10 points - 25 point if they're within 70 miles.  That gave me the 481 baseline I was using.

Using that formula, last season I actually landed 3 pulldowns.  Even so, I try to add enough players to my watch list that rejected phone calls don't bother me (I'd rather spend a couple hundred that way than miss on a good player).  This season, the guys who were my highest priority pulldown targets had ratings of 446, 451, 452 and 453.  Only the 446 would talk to me and he's the one who was slow to drop and ended up going to a rival team.

My 2 signatures were in the non-pulldown 430s, and I'm definitely not happy with the quality.  I don't see how I'm supposed to rebuild the program with mediocre players and ever get my prestige higher.  If it happens again next season I'm thinking of just canceling my D3 account rather than suffering yet another 3-win season.  It's not much fun.


 

I think a change was in order.   However, they went WAYYY overboard with this adjustment.  For me recruiting, and specifically, attempting to pull down ranked players is one of my favorite aspects of HD.  It's certainly the reason that I stay in D2.  If pulldowns are largely removed from the game, my interest in playing HD will certainly wane.

A couple seasons ago I was able to pull down #87 rank PG.  At D2, I don't think I should be able to do that.  However, IMO I should have a chance to pulldown, say,  players ranked in the #120 - #130 range (assuming  a very high prestigy).

But instead of debating the specific ratings that can and can't be pulled down to D2, I'll just say that pulldowns are a very important aspect to what keeps this game interesting for me.  I would hate to see them removed.

Posted by ethan66 on 4/11/2011 4:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tianyi7886 on 4/11/2011 12:35:00 PM (view original):
You are aiming kind of high with C- prestige, which explains why 70% of the recruits rejected your phone call. The 450-480 range is what I generally go for with my A+ programs, and once in a blue moon, I would take on in the 480-490 range.

I'm doing C- rebuild in Naismith too and I only got about a 50% response and I was aiming in the 410-450 range. 

I was using Weena's formula - look at the highest 4-year player in your division and then add 10 points - 25 point if they're within 70 miles.  That gave me the 481 baseline I was using.

Using that formula, last season I actually landed 3 pulldowns.  Even so, I try to add enough players to my watch list that rejected phone calls don't bother me (I'd rather spend a couple hundred that way than miss on a good player).  This season, the guys who were my highest priority pulldown targets had ratings of 446, 451, 452 and 453.  Only the 446 would talk to me and he's the one who was slow to drop and ended up going to a rival team.

My 2 signatures were in the non-pulldown 430s, and I'm definitely not happy with the quality.  I don't see how I'm supposed to rebuild the program with mediocre players and ever get my prestige higher.  If it happens again next season I'm thinking of just canceling my D3 account rather than suffering yet another 3-win season.  It's not much fun.


 

But everyone else is getting the same level of players. . so the fact that they aren't as 'high' as the previous ones is irrelevant.

Posted by gfselect on 4/11/2011 4:49:00 PM (view original):
I think a change was in order.   However, they went WAYYY overboard with this adjustment.  For me recruiting, and specifically, attempting to pull down ranked players is one of my favorite aspects of HD.  It's certainly the reason that I stay in D2.  If pulldowns are largely removed from the game, my interest in playing HD will certainly wane.

A couple seasons ago I was able to pull down #87 rank PG.  At D2, I don't think I should be able to do that.  However, IMO I should have a chance to pulldown, say,  players ranked in the #120 - #130 range (assuming  a very high prestigy).

But instead of debating the specific ratings that can and can't be pulled down to D2, I'll just say that pulldowns are a very important aspect to what keeps this game interesting for me.  I would hate to see them removed.

You can still pull players down.  Not all pulldowns have a ranking.

But everyone else is getting the same level of players. . so the fact that they aren't as 'high' as the previous ones is irrelevant.

I get that point, but bear in mind that I'm a latecomer to HD and spent my first 2 or 3 seasons totally clueless about how to pull down.  Now that I'm finally getting the hang of it, pulldowns are not just harder to do, they're not as good.  Meanwhile, the veteran coaches in my conference already have their D2 stars playing D3 ball and kicking my ***.

By the time it all levels out in 3 or 4 more seasons, my prestige will be in the crapper farther than it is and I'll never dig myself out.

I agree with gfselect when he says that pulling down higher division players is probably my favorite part of HD.  Changing the rules to make it less productive or harder to do pretty much throws cold water on my enthusiasm.

Posted by ethan66 on 4/11/2011 5:07:00 PM (view original):
But everyone else is getting the same level of players. . so the fact that they aren't as 'high' as the previous ones is irrelevant.

I get that point, but bear in mind that I'm a latecomer to HD and spent my first 2 or 3 seasons totally clueless about how to pull down.  Now that I'm finally getting the hang of it, pulldowns are not just harder to do, they're not as good.  Meanwhile, the veteran coaches in my conference already have their D2 stars playing D3 ball and kicking my ***.

By the time it all levels out in 3 or 4 more seasons, my prestige will be in the crapper farther than it is and I'll never dig myself out.

I agree with gfselect when he says that pulling down higher division players is probably my favorite part of HD.  Changing the rules to make it less productive or harder to do pretty much throws cold water on my enthusiasm.

I don't think D3 pulldowns have changed much. 

Posted by ethan66 on 4/11/2011 5:07:00 PM (view original):
But everyone else is getting the same level of players. . so the fact that they aren't as 'high' as the previous ones is irrelevant.

I get that point, but bear in mind that I'm a latecomer to HD and spent my first 2 or 3 seasons totally clueless about how to pull down.  Now that I'm finally getting the hang of it, pulldowns are not just harder to do, they're not as good.  Meanwhile, the veteran coaches in my conference already have their D2 stars playing D3 ball and kicking my ***.

By the time it all levels out in 3 or 4 more seasons, my prestige will be in the crapper farther than it is and I'll never dig myself out.

I agree with gfselect when he says that pulling down higher division players is probably my favorite part of HD.  Changing the rules to make it less productive or harder to do pretty much throws cold water on my enthusiasm.

YOu absolutely can still pull down players.  And they aren't going to be 'less effective' because they will be going against players of similar caliber.

9:20 pm. 1 human cycle before recruiting ends.

top 200 individual ranked undecided  still left           pg-37       sg-34    sf-57     pf-46    c-14 = 187   23% of total originally available

PG-    602  #157 soph  B+ prestige                 533 not ranked  A        532 not ranked   B-      502 #195  B       = 2 ranked players signed by d2 teams

SG-    576  #109 soph   B           553  non ranked  A+       533  non ranked  B         530   non ranked  B-        =  1 ranked signed by d2

SF-   548   non ranked  B-     534  non ranked   B-      526   non ranked   A+       =      0 ranked signed by d2

PF-   539   non ranked   A-      531   non ranked    A+       530 non ranked    A+           0 ranked signed by d2

C-   537  non ranked   C+        535  non ranked   A-  international                523   #187   A+               526 #186 A+
     518   #197     B+        507   #193   B+       506  #192   B+    504  #182  C-    499  #185  A+    498  #190   B         497  #184  B+   =  9 ranked signed by d2

total number of top 200 in each position signed by d2 schools = 12, =   1.5%

YOu absolutely can still pull down players.  And they aren't going to be 'less effective' because they will be going against players of similar caliber.

I understand that.  I'm not even against an attempt to make the D1 game more fair. But you're still missing my point.

This is strictly selfish coming from someone who has only now (after 3 seasons, due to learning ropes) started to recruit decent players in D2, and (after 1 season) in D3:  My competition has a head start on me due to having 4 classes of good players on board, which is how they got their A prestige.  My D3 squad started with C prestige, but because I was rebuilding and playing freshmen a lot of minutes, it slipped to C-.  It's liable to slip even more this season, but while I have 1 decent class of players enrolled, they're still working with 3 or 4.  By the time we're all actually on that level playing field you're talking about, my prestige could well be in the low-to-mid D's most likely and the work of building the program just became so tediously long I question whether it's worth it.

This isn't about the change being unfair.  It's about how the change impacts someone who is basically starting from scratch.