No, You can make the NT year after year in a crap conf.  You just have to schedule extremely carefully, get a few road wins against 20 win sim teams loaded with seniors and your rpi takes care of itself. Of course, recruiting is a key to having the players to do so. And therein lies the issue with having a midmajor with a good coach that can make the nt every year and make the sweet 16 on occasion opposed to a powerconference team which has a mediocre coach who is able to get 4 and 5 stars simply by relying on his conference.

There a post without mentioning baseling prestige. Oh crap.

Guys when I said all teams on equal footings I don't mean teams that are an A+ should be the same as a D+ team.  I mean that in the beginning all teams were equal.  Some excelled and some didn't.  As human owners came into play Big 6 teams got taken as soon as possible as they have the most fans.  They became better than the Sim teams and now they are A+ teams because of their success.  However, if I take a Mid Major and have success then I should be able to move up and compete with them.  If I am a B prestige, I should be able to recruit against any other B prestige team and if done right then I should be able to take a kid away from an A- team if he is close enough and they screw up.  As it is now any Big 6 school will just outbid me unless they have really f'ed up.  Regardless of their recent success they will not drop below a C or so and always have more money than I will as a Mid Major with only 2 or 3 owners in my conference.  I guess I should strive to move up, but I want to build a team from WKY as I like to make winners out of smaller schools. 

Another item of proof that mid majors cant compete!....2 teams in the top 32 recruiting class from mid major conf....no  27 and no 30......the rest are all from the big 6!

Posted by hughesjr on 3/29/2011 8:25:00 AM (view original):
Why should it be as easy to win at Cleveland State as it is for Purdue?

Shouldn't it be easier to recruit from a Big 6 school than from a Mid Major?

Do we want the Div-1 game to be 324 teams where each team has the same chance to win / recruit ... or do we want it to model real life where the McDonalds All Americans congregate at teams like Kentucky, Duke, North Carolina, Kansas, Texas, etc.

I am just starting out in Div-1, but I do not expect my Dartmouth or IUPUI team to be able to recruit as well as Indiana or Syracuse.  Do we really want that to be able to happen?

The question is not if Cleveland State should be beating UNC for an All-American.  The question is can Cleveland State do ANYTHING to beat Wisconsin in the NCAAs?

But in real life, midmajor teams succeed at making runs into the Sweet Sixteen. This year, SDSU, BYU, VCU and Butler made the Sweet Sixteen from outside of a BCS conference. Last year, it was Northern Iowa, Butler, Xavier, Cornell and St. Mary's. (2009 was a chalk year in the tournament, with only Xavier and Gonzaga making it).  2008 had Davidson, Western Kentucky and Xavier. But a senior-laden midmajor team should be able to play with a power conference team, especially one that finished lower than third in their conference.

But when only the big boys are experiencing success, the problem is two fold. The first is that the tournament becomes much less exciting. If everybody knows that a decent Big 12 school -- not a conference champion or even a runner-up -- is going to cruise past a midmajor team, then the Cinderella aspect of the tournament is gone. Even in a sim, I want to see Ali Farokhmanesh nail a 3 to beat Kansas.

But the more important issue is that midmajor coaches end up trapped. If you do everything right as IUPUI coach -- you recruit high potential players who fit your system, make sure they have A/A+ knowledge of the offense and get them to be upperclassmen -- and you have no chance of any tournament success, you can't move up to coach the big boys. The coaches who want to be the next Brad Stevens are trapped in a cycle of first round defeats, which is no fun.  And the coaches who want to be the next Bill Self and use Tulsa to get the Illinois job and then use Illinois to go to Kansas aren't able to move up because, paradoxically, they haven't had the kind of post-season success necessary to get the Illinois job.

It used to be that a team of maxed-out midmajor D1 recruits -- as upperclassmen -- could give major teams a real run for their money. But with the new recruit generation, those players simply can't compete against the big boys.  The McD's All-Americans are still really, really good. But you can't find any Matt Howards anymore.

Posted by justcamman on 4/12/2011 1:05:00 PM (view original):
Another item of proof that mid majors cant compete!....2 teams in the top 32 recruiting class from mid major conf....no  27 and no 30......the rest are all from the big 6!

. . . those recruiting class ratings are almost completely meaningless.

Posted by arssanguinus on 4/12/2011 3:16:00 PM (view original):

Really think the big solution would be making SIMAI teams less putrid.  If they could occasionally do well enough to either make the NT or even PT, and more importantly, not drag down the RPI or humans in mid major conferences that were less populated that would close a chunk of the gap.

Disagree. Besides the fact that doing so would a). require a marvel of artificial genetic engineering to make sim teams unbelievably strong recruiters and b). there are a couple dozen items that would be more valuable for WIS to work on ... I don't think this is the problem. The talent discrepancy overrides everything else right now.

Posted by arssanguinus on 4/12/2011 3:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by justcamman on 4/12/2011 1:05:00 PM (view original):
Another item of proof that mid majors cant compete!....2 teams in the top 32 recruiting class from mid major conf....no  27 and no 30......the rest are all from the big 6!

. . . those recruiting class ratings are almost completely meaningless.

Well, when you're comparing one recruiting class to another, they can be misleading and sometimes even a bit baffling.

But when viewed as a whole, I don't think it leaves much room for interpretation when the top 26 are all BCS schools. Now, maybe #5 should've been #1, and maybe #4 didn't belong in the top 10 ... but to dismiss that preponderance of evidence out-of-hand is silly and just sort of ignorning reality.

Recruiting ends tomorrow. .and out of the top 200 at each position, this is what is still considering _noone_. (In d1 Phelan)

Posted by girt25 on 4/12/2011 3:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by arssanguinus on 4/12/2011 3:16:00 PM (view original):

Really think the big solution would be making SIMAI teams less putrid.  If they could occasionally do well enough to either make the NT or even PT, and more importantly, not drag down the RPI or humans in mid major conferences that were less populated that would close a chunk of the gap.

Disagree. Besides the fact that doing so would a). require a marvel of artificial genetic engineering to make sim teams unbelievably strong recruiters and b). there are a couple dozen items that would be more valuable for WIS to work on ... I don't think this is the problem. The talent discrepancy overrides everything else right now.

it would be fairly simple to make sim teams reasonably effective recruiters... nobody wants to make them "unbelievable strong", hehe :) but in all honesty, i don't see it being worth while. even if free. why? no human will tolerate being 300th best in the nation. if they are 150th, which makes them the worst human, that is a lot more bearable. 

i would 100% support making sims recruit locally, so they don't mess up everything geographically like they do today. but i think sims are perfectly capable enough. i personally feel like it would be close to trivial to make sims that could beat 80% of the humans in HD. but would i do it? absolutely, positively not. sims, IMO, need to be comparable to total rookies (for the division). that way, they aren't trivial to the totally new coaches, but its easy for young coaches to get good enough to routinely beat sims.

Posted by gillispie on 4/12/2011 8:02:00 PM (view original):

Posted by girt25 on 4/12/2011 3:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by arssanguinus on 4/12/2011 3:16:00 PM (view original):

Really think the big solution would be making SIMAI teams less putrid.  If they could occasionally do well enough to either make the NT or even PT, and more importantly, not drag down the RPI or humans in mid major conferences that were less populated that would close a chunk of the gap.

Disagree. Besides the fact that doing so would a). require a marvel of artificial genetic engineering to make sim teams unbelievably strong recruiters and b). there are a couple dozen items that would be more valuable for WIS to work on ... I don't think this is the problem. The talent discrepancy overrides everything else right now.

it would be fairly simple to make sim teams reasonably effective recruiters... nobody wants to make them "unbelievable strong", hehe :) but in all honesty, i don't see it being worth while. even if free. why? no human will tolerate being 300th best in the nation. if they are 150th, which makes them the worst human, that is a lot more bearable. 

i would 100% support making sims recruit locally, so they don't mess up everything geographically like they do today. but i think sims are perfectly capable enough. i personally feel like it would be close to trivial to make sims that could beat 80% of the humans in HD. but would i do it? absolutely, positively not. sims, IMO, need to be comparable to total rookies (for the division). that way, they aren't trivial to the totally new coaches, but its easy for young coaches to get good enough to routinely beat sims.

I generally agree with this, but I don't think a SIM team should carry more than 2 walk ons at a time. There is a difference between being consistently beatable and being awful. Too many SIMS carry too many walkons, which makes them uncompetitive.

Posted by arssanguinus on 4/12/2011 3:45:00 PM (view original):
Recruiting ends tomorrow. .and out of the top 200 at each position, this is what is still considering _noone_. (In d1 Phelan)

 

PG: 64

SG: 55

SF: 51

PF: 72

C:   71

Surely there are some players still left out there?

 

Question is why will admin not have sims have a recruiting cycle at the end and take these 23% or so leftover ranked recruits instead of walk ons? Do they want them as a group of soph for the next recruiting cycle instead?

Posted by carlnault on 4/12/2011 9:57:00 PM (view original):

Posted by arssanguinus on 4/12/2011 3:45:00 PM (view original):
Recruiting ends tomorrow. .and out of the top 200 at each position, this is what is still considering _noone_. (In d1 Phelan)

 

PG: 64

SG: 55

SF: 51

PF: 72

C:   71

Surely there are some players still left out there?

 

Question is why will admin not have sims have a recruiting cycle at the end and take these 23% or so leftover ranked recruits instead of walk ons? Do they want them as a group of soph for the next recruiting cycle instead?

That I do not know.  If the Humans won't take them, the sims should.  I don't think, with a nod to GIllespie, that I want SIms beating up on 80% of the humans either. . . but the gap shouldn't be quite as large as it is now.

And I shouldn't end up seeing multiple sim teams with five or six walkons.  If I am, then the general quality of walkons needs to be improved, if only slightly, so that those teams aren't so putrid that you could put in your bench as starters and blow them out by 25.  I woudl be fine with filling in four of those walkon slots with the sukiest scholarship recruits available in the pool.  Still easily beatable but not so. . horrid.

I went and looked at some of those leftovers...I only have FSS in a few states, but there were a couple of decent players that just got overlooked I guess...I think if the pool were divided among the sims they (the sims) would be much tougher...

i agree w/ you guys that the sims should fill to at least 10 players, i personally would have no problem if the sims just had players generated onto their teams and didn't even bother recruiting :O i wasn't really thinking about those complete failure sims when i said i didn't want them better... but i am 100% in agreement taking 5 walkons is unacceptable. i would think the fix would be something specifically for those teams - like at the end of recruiting, players went for free to sims, up to the point where no sim had less than 10 scholarship players. not a fix to make sims in general better - because i think in d2 and d3 sims are plenty good enough (and in d1, on the coaching front).