I hate this game - Page 2 - Hoops Dynasty

tkimble

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Posted by yanks250125 on 4/24/2011 8:43:00 PM (view original):
tony parker?

D3 version of Tony Parker

4/24/2011 8:53 PM

rockafe11a

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It must be taken into account that player A is averaging 2 off rebounds a game and with 77 ATH i imagine he is dunking those back in. So that helps. Also, like many have already said his great defense gets him easy dunks off the 2 stls per game. What off/def is his team playing? I could see this guy being great in the fastbreak/press. Throw in the the easier SOS and his numbers seem reasonable. A good question is why is he shooting 3s? I mean .216?

-Many guys are great at scoring around the basket based solely on their ATH/SPD. Imagine Blake Griffin with less skill in the LP and you get player A. How many times does he beat someone down the court for an easy one or dunk over someone. That's not LP, its ATH/SPD.

4/24/2011 9:27 PM (edited)

rockafe11a

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Posted by tkimble on 4/24/2011 8:53:00 PM (view original):
Posted by yanks250125 on 4/24/2011 8:43:00 PM (view original):
tony parker?
D3 version of Tony Parker

That guy is a Tony Parker clone. Very effective around the basket.

4/24/2011 9:12 PM

jetwildcat

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Posted by tkimble on 4/24/2011 8:53:00 PM (view original):
Posted by yanks250125 on 4/24/2011 8:43:00 PM (view original):
tony parker?
D3 version of Tony Parker

actually that's the kind of rating i'd give tony parker in real life (except for higher pe/bh/pass). says something about whatif ratings.

4/24/2011 9:28 PM

dahsdebater

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Posted by girt25 on 4/24/2011 8:30:00 PM (view original):
Posted by dahsdebater on 4/24/2011 8:22:00 PM (view original):
Unfortunately yes.
Don't you think there are a good # of guys in real life who are effective inside scorers based almost entirely on their strength/athleticism/speed/explosiveness?

Depends on what you refer to as "effective." There are definitely guys in this game with ratings on the order of 50-60 Ath/70-80 SPD/50 BH, 18 LP who are scoring 18+ points on 50+% shooting. I think that's absolutely ridiculous, and no, I don't think there's any real life example of a player like that. These guys are scoring huge numbers of points because they have high distro. In real life you don't run that many plays for guys who don't know how to score. Period. The end. Before they updated the definition of low post to refer to any kind of finishing around the rim I was more ok with it. At that point I assumed that the ability to score inside for guards was basically tied to their athleticism. Now that scoring ability has been attached to LP for anybody inside I absolutely refuse to believe that anybody, including somebody like Blake Griffin, is explosive enough to score that extensively and efficiently without having any moves or finishing ability.

4/24/2011 9:52 PM

tianyi7886

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Posted by dahsdebater on 4/24/2011 9:52:00 PM (view original):
Posted by girt25 on 4/24/2011 8:30:00 PM (view original):
Posted by dahsdebater on 4/24/2011 8:22:00 PM (view original):
Unfortunately yes.
Don't you think there are a good # of guys in real life who are effective inside scorers based almost entirely on their strength/athleticism/speed/explosiveness?
Depends on what you refer to as "effective." There are definitely guys in this game with ratings on the order of 50-60 Ath/70-80 SPD/50 BH, 18 LP who are scoring 18+ points on 50+% shooting. I think that's absolutely ridiculous, and no, I don't think there's any real life example of a player like that. These guys are scoring huge numbers of points because they have high distro. In real life you don't run that many plays for guys who don't know how to score. Period. The end. Before they updated the definition of low post to refer to any kind of finishing around the rim I was more ok with it. At that point I assumed that the ability to score inside for guards was basically tied to their athleticism. Now that scoring ability has been attached to LP for anybody inside I absolutely refuse to believe that anybody, including somebody like Blake Griffin, is explosive enough to score that extensively and efficiently without having any moves or finishing ability.

NBA you are probably right, but college guys, I think there are a bunch who were dominant solely due to physical prowess. This is even more true in D3 where if you have a 6'10 Center, he can score at will because the guy guarding him is a good 6 inches shorter.

4/24/2011 10:48 PM

homrbush

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Posted by girt25 on 4/24/2011 1:36:00 PM (view original):
You have a guy who should be a very good 3pt shooter, and not so good taking the ball to the hole. And that's exactly what you got -- nearly 44% from 3pt range. And as carcrazy pointed out, you played a tough sked.

And I think car had a good point re: the other guy, too -- what his schedule was like as well as how efficiently he scored.

Except the LP are identical for the players.

As well, we both play press, and taking the ball to the hole after a steal has been virtually eliminated from this game. Now, if you are lucky, the ball gets passed ahead for a score, so the player making the steal is rarely scoring afterwards.

As furry said, I'd gladly taking an "inefficient" player such as this, who is shooting 48% from 2 point range, on a large sample size, with such crappy offensive ratings. I've had players with that ATH and that SPD, with good to great offensive ratings, and don't get those kind of results.

4/24/2011 11:07 PM

isack24

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Just took a look through all of the games that guy has played, homr. For a vast majority of the games Smith has played, he has had a huge ath/spd advantage. Here are the games where he didn't have a big advantage over the opposing team's SF in one of those categories:

http://www.whatifsports.com/hd/GameResults/BoxScore.aspx?gid=6872877 - 4-16, 11 points

http://www.whatifsports.com/hd/GameResults/BoxScore.aspx?gid=6817485 - 7-18, 19 points

Those were literally the only games where he didn't have a big difference between ath, spd, or combination of two. There were some other games where he struggled when the other team's SF had a big ath advantage. Overall, he was just facing far inferior ath/spd, and that's the only reason he was successful. Between Rafferty at Delta, Mahoney at Ark Tech, Hollingsworth at Harding, Abel at Huntsville, and six other legit SFs, he gets eaten alive offensively in our conference.

As for Duncan, we both know that despite what any SoS tells you, the SGs in the Gulf South are as good as you'll find in all of D2. What Duncan did was easily as impressive.

4/25/2011 12:32 AM

homrbush

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Posted by isack24 on 4/25/2011 12:32:00 AM (view original):
Just took a look through all of the games that guy has played, homr. For a vast majority of the games Smith has played, he has had a huge ath/spd advantage. Here are the games where he didn't have a big advantage over the opposing team's SF in one of those categories:

http://www.whatifsports.com/hd/GameResults/BoxScore.aspx?gid=6872877 - 4-16, 11 points

http://www.whatifsports.com/hd/GameResults/BoxScore.aspx?gid=6817485 - 7-18, 19 points

Those were literally the only games where he didn't have a big difference between ath, spd, or combination of two. There were some other games where he struggled when the other team's SF had a big ath advantage. Overall, he was just facing far inferior ath/spd, and that's the only reason he was successful. Between Rafferty at Delta, Mahoney at Ark Tech, Hollingsworth at Harding, Abel at Huntsville, and six other legit SFs, he gets eaten alive offensively in our conference.

As for Duncan, we both know that despite what any SoS tells you, the SGs in the Gulf South are as good as you'll find in all of D2. What Duncan did was easily as impressive.

I supposed isack, but compare Smith to Dilworth (the SF on my current team):

Smith:

Athleticism	77
Speed	62	1
Rebounding	59	1
Defense	100	1
Shot Blocking	30	1
Low-post	24
Perimeter	19	1
Ball Handling	40
Passing	48
Work Ethic	87	4
Stamina	94	1
Durability	47	1
FT Shooting	B

Dilworth:

Athleticism	78	2
Speed	43
Rebounding	58	1
Defense	72	5
Shot Blocking	31	1
Low-post	57
Perimeter	47
Ball Handling	41
Passing	46	5
Work Ethic	67	7
Stamina	79	6
Durability	89
FT Shooting	A-

and Dilworth's stats:

Yr.	GP	GS	MIN	FG%	FG3%	FT%	OREB	REB	AST	TO	STL	BLK	PF	PTS
48	28	28	22.3	.428	.270	.879	1.5	3.9	1.3	1.9	1.5	0.3	2.0	10.0

Dilworth has identical ATH, REB, PA and BH; gives up a lot in SPD, but gains a lot back (in theory) in LP AND PER. Take out the 3's, and Dilworth is 46% from the field.

Is it really just scheduling? Like I said, Smith is my recruit, and I a) would never have thought to give him high distro over the other offensively talented players on the team or b) expect that to work.

I'm not complaining that Smith was effective (I think

), but I'm trying to figure out how he was effective. Was it really just a somewhat easier schedule and SPD? I would like to think that the schedule and the LP/PER differences between Smith and Dilworth would cancel one another out, and they should similar production?

Maybe I'm just bitter at how my season downward spiraled at the end there

4/25/2011 4:58 AM

a_in_the_b

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Also, all of your Noncon games were road games, save one..

4/25/2011 7:25 AM

girt25

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Posted by tianyi7886 on 4/24/2011 10:48:00 PM (view original):
Posted by dahsdebater on 4/24/2011 9:52:00 PM (view original):
Posted by girt25 on 4/24/2011 8:30:00 PM (view original):
Posted by dahsdebater on 4/24/2011 8:22:00 PM (view original):
Unfortunately yes.
Don't you think there are a good # of guys in real life who are effective inside scorers based almost entirely on their strength/athleticism/speed/explosiveness?
Depends on what you refer to as "effective." There are definitely guys in this game with ratings on the order of 50-60 Ath/70-80 SPD/50 BH, 18 LP who are scoring 18+ points on 50+% shooting. I think that's absolutely ridiculous, and no, I don't think there's any real life example of a player like that. These guys are scoring huge numbers of points because they have high distro. In real life you don't run that many plays for guys who don't know how to score. Period. The end. Before they updated the definition of low post to refer to any kind of finishing around the rim I was more ok with it. At that point I assumed that the ability to score inside for guards was basically tied to their athleticism. Now that scoring ability has been attached to LP for anybody inside I absolutely refuse to believe that anybody, including somebody like Blake Griffin, is explosive enough to score that extensively and efficiently without having any moves or finishing ability.
NBA you are probably right, but college guys, I think there are a bunch who were dominant solely due to physical prowess. This is even more true in D3 where if you have a 6'10 Center, he can score at will because the guy guarding him is a good 6 inches shorter.

+1. Lots of guys like this (guards, wings and bigs) in college. Lots.

I'm not even saying that the player in question should necessarily be this effective. But to think that you have to have good lp moves to score inside -- in real life or HD -- simply isn't correct.

To me, the biggest difference should be, "OK, Player A is scoring effectively based on athleticism/speed/etc alone ... As long as fictional Player B -- who has those same attributes PLUS low post -- is clearly the more effective scorer, then I think we're OK."

4/25/2011 7:41 AM

isack24

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"I'm not complaining that Smith was effective (I think

), but I'm trying to figure out how he was effective. Was it really just a somewhat easier schedule and SPD?"

Honestly, if you add ath, yeah, I think so.

He had a 25 ath/15 spd advantage in most of his matchups, and is a decent FT shooter. Regardless of anything else, having huge advantages in those areas really makes it much easier to score. Check him out in the games where he didn't have a big ath advantage; he wasn't an efficient scorer.

Honestly, I really think he would have been a huge detriment to the team had his distro remained the same and he played in our conference. He might score 15 or 16, but he's not doing it on 45+% shooting.

On the other hand, you have Dilworth, who has to play against elite SFs every night. I rarely say ths schedule make this big of a difference, but we had such an elite conference that there were just very few times where anyone could find a true advantage to exploit, which is clearly different from Erskine, who had a huge matchup advantages every night.

4/25/2011 10:25 AM

colonels19

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I too find this a bit ridiculous

4/25/2011 11:49 PM

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