Rebuilding a BCS Doormat -- an Experiment Topic

dahsdebater
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I think for the biggest programs keeping the boosters happy is a significantly bigger factor than the actual receipts from the games...  But yeah, same basic idea.
6/6/2011 5:39 PM
_hannibal_
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Posted by abitaamber on 6/6/2011 5:36:00 PM (view original):
Yes, that's more accurate, Dahs. 

I know this would never happen, but it would be interesting if recruiting budget became tied into to how many home games you played, with some kind of a penalty for playing less than 1/2 your non-con at home.  That's the impediment to a real-life team gaming the RPI system like that...they need the receipts from the home games, they couldn't afford to pull that stunt.
You would have to balance that out with a reward to the sacrificial lamb.  Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe IRL the Colgates and Cornells of the world get some compensation for getting slaughtered by Syracuse at the Dome every season.  If they could come up with something with the right balance, it could really add another dimension to the game.
6/6/2011 7:27 PM
professor17
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Posted by abitaamber on 6/6/2011 5:36:00 PM (view original):
Yes, that's more accurate, Dahs. 

I know this would never happen, but it would be interesting if recruiting budget became tied into to how many home games you played, with some kind of a penalty for playing less than 1/2 your non-con at home.  That's the impediment to a real-life team gaming the RPI system like that...they need the receipts from the home games, they couldn't afford to pull that stunt.

Just give "x" recruiting bonus dollars for every home game you play. Then you'd have to weigh the balance between gaming the RPI formula vs. generating extra recruiting money. As it stands right now, there's really no incentive whatsoever to play any home games, which is the opposite of real life.

Take Syracuse as an extreme real-life example. Unlike most schools, they fund most of their athletic department through basketball revenue (for most schools, it's football)... that's due partly to the high basketball attendance at the Carrier Dome, and partly to the poor football product that's been on the field in recent years. As a result, the school is compelled to play as many home basketball games as possible, at 17,000+ fans/game, to generate sufficient revenue. There are no such considerations in HD right now, and I believe there should be.

6/6/2011 7:32 PM
professor17
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Posted by _hannibal_ on 6/6/2011 7:27:00 PM (view original):
Posted by abitaamber on 6/6/2011 5:36:00 PM (view original):
Yes, that's more accurate, Dahs. 

I know this would never happen, but it would be interesting if recruiting budget became tied into to how many home games you played, with some kind of a penalty for playing less than 1/2 your non-con at home.  That's the impediment to a real-life team gaming the RPI system like that...they need the receipts from the home games, they couldn't afford to pull that stunt.
You would have to balance that out with a reward to the sacrificial lamb.  Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe IRL the Colgates and Cornells of the world get some compensation for getting slaughtered by Syracuse at the Dome every season.  If they could come up with something with the right balance, it could really add another dimension to the game.
In football that's the case, where there is a real supply/demand problem for the BCS schools finding suitably weak non-conference opponents, but I don't believe that's the case in basketball, where there are far more mid and low major teams to draw from. And if they do pay anything, it's a pittance compared to the $600-$800k that football programs are paying per game for maybe a couple of games per season. No way could a basketball program afford to pay that kind of money for half a dozen or more non-conference home games.
6/6/2011 7:42 PM
dacj501
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Jeff,
I rescind my post in the other thread. If all you are trying to do is build a team that can "compete yearly for NT berths; if we can reach a B+ prestige, I'll consider that a mission accomplished" then I've done that at Bama, and its not that hard. I thought you were talking about building a team that can actually compete with the BCS elites and maybe contend for a title once in a while. Pull that off in 7 seasons and you've got something. Baylor is a B- baseline, Bama is a B. I got to a B by making the PIT finals. After 1 NT 2nd and 1 NT 1st and another PIT finals (and a minor incident involving a throwback Namath jersey to some kid that went juco anyway) we're holding at B+ now...
6/6/2011 8:06 PM
worthy14sure
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Well, that was what I was looking at: should the goal be regular NT berths starting at season 5, or competing all out for a NC at season 7. After reading all this, I'm leaning toward NC at 7. I agree -- I think that's a more fair judge of whether it's still possible to go from nothing to real national prominence. Consider my goal revised :)
6/7/2011 12:48 AM
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dacj501
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Jeff,
Still not totally sure about this, and 7 seasons may be optimistic (or I might be super slow) but my Bama team in Tark just finished season 7 with a Sweet 16 and an A- prestige, and using ORs preseason predictors scores just shy of +11, maybe +12 or +13 after recruiting...

Even if I am nearing the goal, reaching it once or twice isn't good enough, right? The task is to be a consistent participant and frequent contender, so continued success over a half dozen or more seasons will be needed...
7/9/2011 3:09 AM
jeffdrayer
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Sounds pretty close to me.  I think 2-3 more seasons at S16 level and you could look back and say you did it.  But yeah, I think consistently making the S16 is what I'd call success -- means you're always in the mix for an NC; can't ask for much more than that.  Nice job so far!
7/10/2011 10:21 AM
mottnj
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jeff, you are also worthy14sure?


7/10/2011 3:56 PM
jeffdrayer
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Nope -- just borrowed his ID in Rupp, which he was getting ready to dump (read the thread! :) ).  Everywhere else, worthy is worthy. 
7/11/2011 2:39 PM
dacj501
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Posted by dacj501 on 7/9/2011 3:09:00 AM (view original):
Jeff,
Still not totally sure about this, and 7 seasons may be optimistic (or I might be super slow) but my Bama team in Tark just finished season 7 with a Sweet 16 and an A- prestige, and using ORs preseason predictors scores just shy of +11, maybe +12 or +13 after recruiting...

Even if I am nearing the goal, reaching it once or twice isn't good enough, right? The task is to be a consistent participant and frequent contender, so continued success over a half dozen or more seasons will be needed...
*UPDATE*
So its 4 1/2 seasons since this last post. Turns out that Sweet 16 was my best season to date at Bama and that A- my highest prestige. We've gone PI 2nd, PI Final 4, NT 1st, NT 1st and probably back to the PIT this season. Prestige has been B+ throughout. I've had 3 EEs, including one the season we went PIT Final 4. Every time i think we are on the cusp of becoming a team that can compete with the top 15 teams, we lose an EE.

I don't have a lot of D I experience, I am learning this as I go, but all I can say is that so far I haven't been able to take a BCS doormat team and make it relevant  - in almost 12 seasons. I did help take our conference from about half full to right now 11 of 12 humans, which is nice in that conference tourney representation is higher, but there are very few easy conference games on the schedule (as it should be). 
12/5/2011 2:38 PM
llamanunts
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Meanwhile...whatifsports.com/hd/TeamProfile/History.aspx
12/5/2011 3:02 PM
jeffdrayer
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Yeah -- unfortunately, lots of very bad RL timing resulted in me not being able to devote any time to recruiting 2 of the last 3 seasons, leading to a couple of disastrous classes.  Which is too bad -- even though our best Jr. left before this season, in season 4 we're 19-2, 5 RPI, and were ranked as high as #4.  Still, because of the bad recruiting, there'll be a dropoff after this season, though since we should move up to a B+ prestige, we'll be the most dominant team in Texas come recruiting time, and will still be one of the top teams in the Big 12.  Nevertheless, because of aforementioned RL stuff, I have to drop this team after the season anyway, which is too bad -- the people of Waco have treated me well, and we've really got a nice bunch of kids.  Ah well...
12/5/2011 7:53 PM
dacj501
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12th season in the books. Lost in the 2nd rd of the PIT to a sim team 50 ovr lower than us. I've managed a total of 3 NT wins in 12 seasons. I have an idea to try to improve my lot, but it will take a few seasons and probably won't work anyway. Frankly I'm not sure I want to continue to push this rock up this mountain for nothing...

12/12/2011 6:40 PM
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