D1: Return of the Press??? Topic

reinsel
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Seems like the press is getting stronger again, and I think its due to the lack of guards that can dribble and pass more than anything else.

I know gone are the days where 30 teams had a stable of 95/95 BH/pass PGs, but have you looked lately?  It is a wasteland for PGs.

In Allen, if I search for players with ratings of 70 in Ball handling and 70 in passing, and exclude players that have serious flaws that make them unusable in D1, I get a surprising few.  Here is my search:

HS Players, 4 years
Ath 25+
BH 70+
Passing 70+

Yields:  24 players in all of Allen!

1 5-star SF
5 5-star PGs
18 players that a team without an A prestige could ever hope to sign. 

18 in the whole friggin world that have a decent chance to make it to 90/90.  And I bet half or more of them have low potential in BH/PA. 

Anyone else concerned that the lack of guards is going to make the press pretty darn unstoppable again?

Oh I did the same search in Crum and end up with 17 players, only 14 of which were not 5-star players.

 

7/21/2011 2:29 PM
isack24
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"Seems like the press is getting stronger again, and I think its due to the lack of guards that can dribble and pass more than anything else."

I've been saying this about D3 for probably a year.

7/21/2011 3:18 PM
pinkeye
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the press never left
7/21/2011 3:26 PM
tianyi7886
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Posted by isack24 on 7/21/2011 3:18:00 PM (view original):
"Seems like the press is getting stronger again, and I think its due to the lack of guards that can dribble and pass more than anything else."

I've been saying this about D3 for probably a year.

yet, I can't find any press dynasties at d3. 
7/21/2011 3:32 PM
car_crazy_v2
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I think the reason M2M is dominant over the press is because it's easier to recruit for. The press requires a better recruiter and unless you have experience with it, M2M is just an easier alternate because there is a less exclusive amount of recruits that you can chose from.
7/21/2011 4:52 PM
pepwaves
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Posted by tianyi7886 on 7/21/2011 3:32:00 PM (view original):
Posted by isack24 on 7/21/2011 3:18:00 PM (view original):
"Seems like the press is getting stronger again, and I think its due to the lack of guards that can dribble and pass more than anything else."

I've been saying this about D3 for probably a year.

yet, I can't find any press dynasties at d3. 
Beloit in Wooden? 
7/21/2011 5:08 PM
mizzou77
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Yeah, 90% of the people who know anything about this game are running M2M now and you still want to beat the same dead horse.


7/21/2011 5:59 PM
dahsdebater
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90% is a MASSIVE exaggeration.  Probably between 50 and 60%.
7/21/2011 6:13 PM
kmasonbx
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D3 the press is definitely much more viable. Just check the teams who make the Final 4, I'd say on average for the last 3 or 4 months or so that 1/2 the teams at D3 are press teams. I'm not sure it works as well in D1 because even with 1 guard maybe having 70bh/70pa and the other 85/85 it's still enough to limit turnovers whereas in D3 when neither guard has a bh or pa rating over 70 it will be very effective.
7/21/2011 6:20 PM
kmasonbx
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Posted by dahsdebater on 7/21/2011 6:13:00 PM (view original):
90% is a MASSIVE exaggeration.  Probably between 50 and 60%.
Definitely higher than that. At the lower levels maybe, but check D1 nearly everyone runs M2M. I have had games in D1 where I gameplan as if I'm playing against a M2M only to be shocked when I read the PbP and see my opponent is a zone or fcp team, simply because it's so rare to play against a non M2M team in D1.
7/21/2011 6:21 PM
kujayhawk
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I don't buy into the theory that the press is dominant again.  I'm not a super-old vet but since I've been around, I can't remember the three defenses being as equitable as they currently are.

I do that the ball handling and passing stats are a bit concerning.  Theoretically, that should benefit the press but if it is, I don't think it's doing so in any way that makes the press a vastly superior option.

[Awkward transition]

I'm speaking at the D3 level, but the one thing I don't like about the lower ball handling and passing ratings are the inconsistencies.  I get that you probably aren't going to have 99 rated athleticism or speed for D3.  Those are skills that probably would send a player to at least D2, if not D1.  But I'm not sure it makes sense that you wouldn't have 99 ratings for ball handling and passing at D3.  Or more accurately, I don't get why 99 rebounding, 99 perimeter, and 99 low post are (relatively speaking) a dime a dozen at D3, but having a player with 80 passing puts him in the top 25.

Honestly, I'd probably be ok if none of the D3 players could get to 99 in any of the categories.  But I don't get how in some categories you can, but in others you cannot.
7/21/2011 6:26 PM
isack24
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Posted by tianyi7886 on 7/21/2011 3:32:00 PM (view original):
Posted by isack24 on 7/21/2011 3:18:00 PM (view original):
"Seems like the press is getting stronger again, and I think its due to the lack of guards that can dribble and pass more than anything else."

I've been saying this about D3 for probably a year.

yet, I can't find any press dynasties at d3. 
9 of the last 10 championship game participants in Wooden D3 have run press.  And it goes back longer than that, I just didn't think I needed more proof.
7/21/2011 6:42 PM
tianyi7886
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Posted by isack24 on 7/21/2011 6:42:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tianyi7886 on 7/21/2011 3:32:00 PM (view original):
Posted by isack24 on 7/21/2011 3:18:00 PM (view original):
"Seems like the press is getting stronger again, and I think its due to the lack of guards that can dribble and pass more than anything else."

I've been saying this about D3 for probably a year.

yet, I can't find any press dynasties at d3. 
9 of the last 10 championship game participants in Wooden D3 have run press.  And it goes back longer than that, I just didn't think I needed more proof.
Beloits 2 NC in 3 yrs is hardly a dynasty and wooden is a press heavy world; if everyone runs press, ofc all the championships are going to be fcp teams. Look at the dominant m2m dynasties like La Verne in Knight, Greensboro in Tark, Westminster in Phelan, results are much more consistent with longevity. Press teams are harder to recruit for and harder to have the kind of long term NC dominance like a great m2m team.

Press also have more game by game variance than m2m. If you have a great team thats far superior to anyone else, you want to minimize variance. 0 variance, you win 100 games out of 100; huge variance, the better team wins slightly over 50%. Just from a pure statistical standpoint, it's harder to maintain a dynasty with the press. 
7/21/2011 6:58 PM
tianyi7886
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Posted by pepwaves on 7/21/2011 5:08:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tianyi7886 on 7/21/2011 3:32:00 PM (view original):
Posted by isack24 on 7/21/2011 3:18:00 PM (view original):
"Seems like the press is getting stronger again, and I think its due to the lack of guards that can dribble and pass more than anything else."

I've been saying this about D3 for probably a year.

yet, I can't find any press dynasties at d3. 
Beloit in Wooden? 
Guess you don't have views to other worlds. When I say dynasty, I'm thinking teams with histories like this:

http://whatifsports.com/hd/TeamProfile/History.aspx?tid=12761

http://whatifsports.com/hd/teamprofile/History.aspx?tid=4609

http://whatifsports.com/hd/TeamProfile/History.aspx?tid=13648
7/21/2011 7:09 PM
isack24
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Who said anything about dynasties?  You brought that up.

We're talking about viability.  If "everyone" is running it and press teams dominate Wooden, it's clearly more than viable.
7/21/2011 7:09 PM
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