Wait - this isn't right FINAL *FINAL* CS RESPONSE Topic

jeffdrayer
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Ok -- my follow-up, with CS response, and my next follow-up:

ME: "Wait -- so sims continue actively recruiting throughout the first 3 days? I don't think anyone was aware of this. Is it true?

Even if it is, that doesn't explain how the sim kept recruiting such that he came from behind to take the lead, yet I never got a scholarship email saying that I'd fallen behind. Unless, a recruit telling me in a scholarship email that I'm his #1 choice is utterly meaningless in terms of whether I'm actually ahead or not. However, that seems to be the only conclusion I can reach based on your comments. Can you confirm that a scholarship email saying I'm his #1 choice does not necessarily, in fact, mean that I'm leading?
Thanks."

CS: "Which recruit are you referring to?

Sorry for the confusion, but the prior SimAI recruiting response was incorrect. AI schools identify their primary and backup targets like humans, but they do most of their recruiting just before the official start to recruiting (which is also why you may see recruits already considering schools when recruiting begins). Also, AI-controlled schools recruiting efforts are the equivalent to being roughly 200 miles from the recruit regardless of actual distance."

ME: "It was William Coker, now on St. Francis of NY. And yes, that sounds like the sim recruiting that I know. So my question is: why did I go from leading to "Too late..." without a scholarship email telling me I was no longer in the lead? The only alternative, of course, is that "You're my #1 school... stupid WCAA and their rules" doesn't necessarily mean I was ahead. It seems to me it has to be one or the other -- which do you think it is?"

So far, their answer is that sim recruiting does indeed work as we thought.  Now, just waiting to get an answer to my original question.  I'm currently holding my breath...
8/1/2011 2:58 PM
oldresorter
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jeff - you are asking the right ?'s in the right manner, one thing CS said confuses me vs how I thought recruiting works, was the word 'most' in " .... they do "most" of their recruiting just before ....."  which implies they do some recruiting later on?
8/1/2011 3:12 PM
elvis87
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No thats how is used to work and the way they think it does but it isnt the way it does obviously.  something has changed
8/1/2011 3:14 PM
rednu
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With the exception of the query on which recruit and the first sentence of the next paragraph, the latest CS response was nothing more than a direct cut-and-paste off the FAQ page. While that's an improvement over answer No. 1, I'm not sure it demonstrates that anything has really been analyzed on their part yet.

I assume the word "most" is there  because haven't Sims always done a secondary recruiting push very late in the signing period? 

Please keep posting your exchanges jeff -- very interested to hear the explanation to the lack of an e-mail alerting you that you'd lost frontrunner status.
8/1/2011 3:46 PM
jeffdrayer
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OR -- I was always under the impression that sims do some additional recruiting at some point after signings start, but that it was only to find secondary targets because they lost their original ones.  Since sim recruiting never really concerned me much before, I was never entirely sure, but that's my recollection.
EDIT -- just as rednu said above :)
8/1/2011 4:14 PM
oldresorter
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Posted by jeffdrayer on 8/1/2011 4:15:00 PM (view original):
OR -- I was always under the impression that sims do some additional recruiting at some point after signings start, but that it was only to find secondary targets because they lost their original ones.  Since sim recruiting never really concerned me much before, I was never entirely sure, but that's my recollection.
EDIT -- just as rednu said above :)
jeff - thx - yea - me too sort of how it works and sort of never paid that much attention, the lingering ? is 2 fold, in contested battles, 'us and others', do sims use that secondary money at some point to battle, and second, did CS possibly forget to write the code to tell the opposing coach the sim pulled ahead again???


8/1/2011 4:55 PM
dacj501
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ultimately how sims recruit isn't the utmost importance here, really its the lack of notification from you're my #1 choice to sorry thought you'd heard...fix that and we'll deal with the rest...
8/1/2011 5:12 PM
girt25
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Posted by dacj501 on 8/1/2011 5:12:00 PM (view original):
ultimately how sims recruit isn't the utmost importance here, really its the lack of notification from you're my #1 choice to sorry thought you'd heard...fix that and we'll deal with the rest...
I think they're both very important. At a fundamental level, we need to understand if sim recruiting is different then we all thought. (I don't believe it is, but confirming this is quite important.)
8/1/2011 5:54 PM
dahsdebater
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I think what dac meant - and I fully agree with him - is that if sim recruiting has changed and they are able to continue putting in effort throughout recruiting, that is a change we can adapt to and accept.  In fact, one could definitely make a reasonable argument that it would, at least, be an improvement to the realism in the game.  Could go either way in terms of making sims more competitive; frankly, my guess would be that if they kept working on recruits they are already losing to human coaches odds are they would just end up with even more walk-ons and get worse than they already are, but the argument is certainly there for the opposite side.  However, a change in which we no longer always receive e-mails when we lose the lead, while possibly improving realism, would be terrible for the game from pretty much any perspective I can think of.  Obviously CS needs to tell us about changes to the engine, but the one unlikely-to-have-been-made change would be much more welcome than the other...  Odds are good this is just yet another glitch in what is obviously some imperfect code for the recruiting process under seble's new engine, as most other coaches have already said...
8/1/2011 6:19 PM
jenningss
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So I guess the recruit started recruiting already considering the sim? If so, and Jeff pulled ahead then the only way I can see the sim a)getting back in front and, b)signing the recruit and, c)jeff not getting the obligatory "your not #1" email is if the sim pulled ahead and signed on the very last cycle when time doesn't allow for the email.

This happens a little more often than Halleys comet. Now if all those things I listed above didn't happen (and Jeff hasn't said they did) then we got a mystery.
8/1/2011 7:24 PM
gillispie
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Posted by jenningss on 8/1/2011 7:24:00 PM (view original):
So I guess the recruit started recruiting already considering the sim? If so, and Jeff pulled ahead then the only way I can see the sim a)getting back in front and, b)signing the recruit and, c)jeff not getting the obligatory "your not #1" email is if the sim pulled ahead and signed on the very last cycle when time doesn't allow for the email.

This happens a little more often than Halleys comet. Now if all those things I listed above didn't happen (and Jeff hasn't said they did) then we got a mystery.
i am pretty sure this has happened before - as i believe has been mentioned in this thread. so i think its just got to be a bug with respect to reporting when a sim takes the lead. as OR said, the devs could have forgotten to implement this logic. i would guess that is what happened - if you think about it, there was never a reason for this logic to exist, until considering credit came around. sims are 1 and done with respect to putting credit into sims - or at least, that used to be the case and i have never been given a reason to believe otherwise.

the only problem i really have assuming that is the bug and moving on with life is, can considering credit really overcome the advantage of being a clear favorite? seems like a bit of a stretch if you ask me.

jeff - if you wouldn't mind sharing (sorry if i missed it), when did you 1) first contact this recruit and 2) put most of your effort it?
8/1/2011 7:48 PM
jeffdrayer
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Oh, man -- it's already getting a little hazy; I have to admit, I wasn't paying as close attention to recruiting as usual this time around.  Best I can remember, I brought most of my effort at the 2 AM cycle the first night, then a little more in the morning till I got the #1 message.  And certainly, by my calculations, I knew it had to be very close -- it's entirely possible considering credit overtook me in the end.  It's just that if that's the case, I have to, by my understanding, first get a scholarship email telling me I'm behind.  And, he didn't sign on the very last cycle. 

And the thing is, there shouldn't be (and I'm no programmer) a separate code regarding scholarship emails for when recruiting against a sim.  The winning/losing of it all as cycles progress should, I would think, be treated as any other recruiting battle.  That's the thing -- I think the real issue here is with the emails, not with sim-related recruiting in general.
8/1/2011 8:14 PM
jeffdrayer
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Well, here's CS's final response:

"We've done some further investigation and unfortunately can't determine for sure what happened here. Some information disappears once recruiting ends and that hinders our ability to trace what happened. Since we can't determine the cause, I've issued you a $5 HD credit to make up for the situation. I apologize for the inconvenience and confusion this may have caused."

Ah well.  If that's the case, and they just can't access the info to figure it out -- well, if they can't, they can't.  I'm not sure there's any lesson to be learned here, other than if it happens to anyone else, report it before recruiting ends :)
8/1/2011 8:22 PM
dahsdebater
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Unless it was an uber-elite recruit, the $5 credit might be better anyway...
8/1/2011 8:31 PM
cburton23
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I have had it happen before where I didn't get the scholly message.  CS's response was that the other coach put in so much effort in one cycle that he went into the lead and signed the recruit all at once.  But that was a human coach not a SIM.
8/2/2011 9:30 AM
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Wait - this isn't right FINAL *FINAL* CS RESPONSE Topic
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