So I just moved up to D1 in Crum.  I'm at Mercer and have a D+ prestige.  This is my first D1 job.  I'm sure there isn't much difference in coaching the games, but there probably is in recruiting.  Any advice from experienced D1 coaches on recruiting would be appreciated.  Here are a few questions specific to recruiting:

1. Will any D1 player be open to my advances, or will some reject me if they are too highly ranked? Obviously I will want to avoid guys who are ranked too highly since Big 6 schools will be on them and lower schools with better prestige will crush me if I try to battle for them, but if there is a decent player who isn't considering anyone can I get them to consider me no matter how highly they are ranked?

2. I assume it is best to be patient in recruiting when at a lower end D1 school?

3. I tended to stay withint 360 miles of campus for D2 recruiting, but I'm guessing it is ok to venture a bit further away in D1.  True?

4.  I've never recruited international recruits, but is that a good track to take at a lower-end D1 school to get better talent?  I'm assuming not many coaches actually do recruit internationally.

Thanks in advance for any help.

1.  No, some D1 players will still list you as a back-up (incidentally, I think this is rather stupid.  Any D1 school should be able to recruit any D1 player, regardless of ranking).

2.  I would be patient at first, yes.

3.  This one is a little tougher to answer.  I normally stay within the 360 mile radius with my Duke and Indiana teams, but that is more due to the fact that I'm usually trying to recruit the stud players.  If I go too far out trying to recruit those guys, I tend to run into another BCS school after the same player who can recruit for much less than I can due to his closer proximity.  However, with a D+ school, I think you'll be able to reach out a little farther, simply because (and I don't say this to be mean) you'll be recruiting players that have a whole lot less competition for them.  I wouldn't jump the gun too early on those guys because a local D1 school could come in after the fact and take him away easier, but I wouldn't be afraid to venture out farther with a lower prestige school.

4.  Internationals are also a bit tricky.  I used to recruit them all the time with my D2 schools, and still will go after the big boys with Duke and IU, but it seems like internationals have been changed lately.  When I say changed, I personally feel like there are fewer high potentials then there used to be with these guys.  Harder to find the "diamonds in the rough", if you will.  You'll probably be surprised that more coaches recruit internationally than what you'd suspect, but it's still not that many.  The good thing about internationals is that recruiting costs the same for everyone (unless it's a Canadian, or possibly Mexican recruit.  These can be somewhat cheaper for schools nearer the borders).

Hope that helped a bit.

low level D I recruiting is still very much like D II recruiting IMHO

Things change at around C+ or B- I think...when you stop getting backup messages...

I can't remember but I believe you'll get the back up message for 3 stars with your prestige. You can still pull them down but your best approach will be to wait until after a day and some change and then see what's out there. Scout several states that have players that interest you for those potentials. You should be able to find players in the 550 range with potential to help with a quick rebuild.

In regards to #4, I think internationals can be a big help.  In my first two seasons at D1, I pulled in two big guys and they both turned into absolute studs.  One of them was two time CPOY, 1st team all-american his senior year and he was picked in the first round, so you can really find some studs in the international pool.

Posted by dacj501 on 8/21/2011 5:36:00 PM (view original):
low level D I recruiting is still very much like D II recruiting IMHO

Things change at around C+ or B- I think...when you stop getting backup messages...

Just got bumped up into that high C+ range. Any veterans care to expand on what recruiting differences I should expect now?

Posted by dacj501 on 8/21/2011 5:36:00 PM (view original):
low level D I recruiting is still very much like D II recruiting IMHO

Things change at around C+ or B- I think...when you stop getting backup messages...

"low level D I recruiting is still very much like D II recruiting IMHO"

I respectfully disagree. I don't think it's very much like D2 at all.

I currently have a D- prestige team (Quinnipiac) and a B- prestige team (UConn) so I can give both car_crazy and mduncanhogs so advice from what I have experienced in the past few seasons at each school...

With my D- prestige school the way I have been going about recruiting is to find players who have a lot of *high upside* and who will grow in the key categories over their careers. Look for players who may not be the highest possible rated guy and is flying under the radar but will grow and become a player in the 700-800 range. I personally like to get out early in the recruiting and get the players I want, instead of waiting to see what is leftover from the higher prestige teams. In doing this however I am careful to not shoot too high (I don't want to get in battles) and I have taken guys who weren't ranked at their position because they have high-high upside in multiple categories but should be monsters in a few years.

As for mduncanhogs... I have a B- prestige team in a Big 6 conference and I still have gotten the back up message on some players (mostly Top50 overall). The best advice I would give you it to keep doing what got you to the C+ prestige in terms on the way you recruit, but slightly adjust the ceiling of players you go after.

There are some vets on here (girt is one of them) that can give you more advice than myself and Im sure some ppl will say otherwise. However I have done alright for myself in rebuilding a few DI & DII programs and that's the way I always approach it.

Posted by slyman9 on 8/22/2011 12:57:00 AM (view original):
I currently have a D- prestige team (Quinnipiac) and a B- prestige team (UConn) so I can give both car_crazy and mduncanhogs so advice from what I have experienced in the past few seasons at each school...

With my D- prestige school the way I have been going about recruiting is to find players who have a lot of *high upside* and who will grow in the key categories over their careers. Look for players who may not be the highest possible rated guy and is flying under the radar but will grow and become a player in the 700-800 range. I personally like to get out early in the recruiting and get the players I want, instead of waiting to see what is leftover from the higher prestige teams. In doing this however I am careful to not shoot too high (I don't want to get in battles) and I have taken guys who weren't ranked at their position because they have high-high upside in multiple categories but should be monsters in a few years.

As for mduncanhogs... I have a B- prestige team in a Big 6 conference and I still have gotten the back up message on some players (mostly Top50 overall). The best advice I would give you it to keep doing what got you to the C+ prestige in terms on the way you recruit, but slightly adjust the ceiling of players you go after.

There are some vets on here (girt is one of them) that can give you more advice than myself and Im sure some ppl will say otherwise. However I have done alright for myself in rebuilding a few DI & DII programs and that's the way I always approach it.

Sly, if B- UConn was getting back-up messages from ANY player (top 50 overall or not), you should have sent in a ticket because something was off.  On every D1 team I've ever had, C prestige and above could recruit any D1 player, up to and including the number 1 overall rated player.  Should this happen to you again, I would send in a ticket post haste.  Been some weird things going on lately with recruiting, this sounds like it could be another.

When I took over my UTSA team in Smith and they were D- prestige I stayed close to home for recruiting and went after players with solid potential and only mediocre core ratings.  Took me awhile to get UTSA any respect whatsoever, but now we're a solid enough team.  Internationals can come in handy, but you have to get lucky with a lower prestige DI team to land a solid international.  Finding an international who's towards the low end of the board with great potential can be huge (I signed a center from Russia who hit 99 REB by his sophomore year (started at about 70 REB) because he had 99 WE and high potential there and in DEF, which also skyrocketed from around 40 to 80ish in two-three seasons).  

Posted by emy1013 on 8/22/2011 3:21:00 AM (view original):

Posted by slyman9 on 8/22/2011 12:57:00 AM (view original):
I currently have a D- prestige team (Quinnipiac) and a B- prestige team (UConn) so I can give both car_crazy and mduncanhogs so advice from what I have experienced in the past few seasons at each school...

With my D- prestige school the way I have been going about recruiting is to find players who have a lot of *high upside* and who will grow in the key categories over their careers. Look for players who may not be the highest possible rated guy and is flying under the radar but will grow and become a player in the 700-800 range. I personally like to get out early in the recruiting and get the players I want, instead of waiting to see what is leftover from the higher prestige teams. In doing this however I am careful to not shoot too high (I don't want to get in battles) and I have taken guys who weren't ranked at their position because they have high-high upside in multiple categories but should be monsters in a few years.

As for mduncanhogs... I have a B- prestige team in a Big 6 conference and I still have gotten the back up message on some players (mostly Top50 overall). The best advice I would give you it to keep doing what got you to the C+ prestige in terms on the way you recruit, but slightly adjust the ceiling of players you go after.

There are some vets on here (girt is one of them) that can give you more advice than myself and Im sure some ppl will say otherwise. However I have done alright for myself in rebuilding a few DI & DII programs and that's the way I always approach it.

Sly, if B- UConn was getting back-up messages from ANY player (top 50 overall or not), you should have sent in a ticket because something was off.  On every D1 team I've ever had, C prestige and above could recruit any D1 player, up to and including the number 1 overall rated player.  Should this happen to you again, I would send in a ticket post haste.  Been some weird things going on lately with recruiting, this sounds like it could be another.

i disagree - ive gotten the message for sure at C+, and i believe even at a b-. i think you can at b- because for a long time, i thought b- was guaranteed to not be a backup but i am pretty sure i found that to be false, forget what school it was at though.

Thanks for all of the responses guys. Very helpful.

Posted by girt25 on 8/21/2011 11:48:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dacj501 on 8/21/2011 5:36:00 PM (view original):
low level D I recruiting is still very much like D II recruiting IMHO

Things change at around C+ or B- I think...when you stop getting backup messages...

"low level D I recruiting is still very much like D II recruiting IMHO"

I respectfully disagree. I don't think it's very much like D2 at all.

girt - dac - since neither of you say why - it is a little hard to decipher who is right - I can see both sides, for the newer coach - here is my take on D prestige d1 recruiting vs say B- vs A+.

A+ recruiting tends to be somewhat aggressive, much like I am in d2 recruiting most of the time
D prestige tends to be somewhat cautious
B- recruiting has elements of both, and may actually be the hardest for new coaches

but the type of recruits and team building one goes about, well in that regard, I think D prestige recruiting is more like d2, one should think of recruiting as collecting more interchangeable parts with flaws, and build them into a team like d2.  I think A prestige recruiting is more like the 'rifle or laser' message we get at the start of recruiting.  and again, B- prestige recruiting is a mixture of the two.

One of the biggest d1 mistakes I see brand new coaches make, is spending all their money in a battle for a player much better than they ever could imagine in d2, my advice would be to try to get players more like they went after d2, only slightly better WE and potential, then to be aggressive after those guys, but have limits, as others near as good will be out there.  Again, at the B- level, one might every once in a while, go crazy after someone & overspend- but not too often.

Don't know if either girt or dac agree or disagree - they might both think I am wrong, but as most top coaches will tell you, there are many ways to win at this game, I hope this might help or generate a little discussion where others might correct where I got it wrong.

Posted by oldresorter on 8/27/2011 10:05:00 AM (view original):

Posted by girt25 on 8/21/2011 11:48:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dacj501 on 8/21/2011 5:36:00 PM (view original):
low level D I recruiting is still very much like D II recruiting IMHO

Things change at around C+ or B- I think...when you stop getting backup messages...

"low level D I recruiting is still very much like D II recruiting IMHO"

I respectfully disagree. I don't think it's very much like D2 at all.

girt - dac - since neither of you say why - it is a little hard to decipher who is right - I can see both sides, for the newer coach - here is my take on D prestige d1 recruiting vs say B- vs A+.

A+ recruiting tends to be somewhat aggressive, much like I am in d2 recruiting most of the time
D prestige tends to be somewhat cautious
B- recruiting has elements of both, and may actually be the hardest for new coaches

but the type of recruits and team building one goes about, well in that regard, I think D prestige recruiting is more like d2, one should think of recruiting as collecting more interchangeable parts with flaws, and build them into a team like d2.  I think A prestige recruiting is more like the 'rifle or laser' message we get at the start of recruiting.  and again, B- prestige recruiting is a mixture of the two.

One of the biggest d1 mistakes I see brand new coaches make, is spending all their money in a battle for a player much better than they ever could imagine in d2, my advice would be to try to get players more like they went after d2, only slightly better WE and potential, then to be aggressive after those guys, but have limits, as others near as good will be out there.  Again, at the B- level, one might every once in a while, go crazy after someone & overspend- but not too often.

Don't know if either girt or dac agree or disagree - they might both think I am wrong, but as most top coaches will tell you, there are many ways to win at this game, I hope this might help or generate a little discussion where others might correct where I got it wrong.

In all honesty I've only got maybe 20 total seasons of D I experience, and I've yet to raise my best team (Alabama in Tark) above an A-, so given that, and the fact that I respect girt's opinion on most things, I decided it might be best to avoid any "confrontation" for lack of a better word on this issue... but, since you asked, OR's description of things is about how I perceive it at lower prestige. Most of my experience in D I has been at about the B level, which is kind of fun, but frequently frustrating when the A+ big boys lose a battle and come around and scoop up one of your players as a "Plan B"

At the D level, most decent D I propects will still give you the backup message, meaning you are either pulling down or waiting for drop downs, just like D II (especially D II before the last recruit change when pulldowns made up the bulk of D II recruiting). Most of the recruits you can feasibly sign are also incomplete players, like in D II, and as OR mentioned it is important to find the right mix of players abilities that will compliment each other and build a team that is stronger than the sum of its parts. I believe this becomes less so the higher along you get in prestige, as soon enough you ought to be able to find a number of guys who are very good at many things - the trick is now to land them and either avoid battles (not always possible) or figure out how to fight and win battles (another forum topic entirely I suppose).

My thinking on it is that if a new D I coach at a D-, D or D + school who has had some success at D II recruits in a similar fashion to what they did to get successful at D II they ought to be able to have enough initial success to start improving into the C, C+, maybe B- range, and then things get different, but by then they've had a few seasons to start to get the feel for D I hopefully...

High level D2 recruiting, imo, is much more aggressive than low level DI recruiting. Low level DI emphasizes patience and opportunism, as well has making judgments about battles; high level D2 is more about jumping on guys you really like. I see them as fairly opposite.