135 scouting trips not enough! Topic

 What I meant with the pull down is once a really good team (human coached) jumps on a "back up" player it's really tough to get that guy to drop to you. I don't know for sure if it can be done (I imagine there's a chance) but I don't think it can.
8/31/2011 2:05 PM
For the record I did attempt to recruit Suzuki the player of subject during the first cycle but he rejected my visits. So I proceeded to try and pull him down in cycle 2, Washington put in such an effort that he was the lone wolf on Suzuki such that I was left wondering whether the number of scouting trips which 30 was not enough perhaps or it wasn't enough because Washington put in a lot more recruiting effort. I went on to pluck away with 5 trips here and 10 trips there all the way to signings....So far it seems like once a high prestige is on a player then only other high prestige teams can recruit said player. So I will and encourage others to as well to put a crap load of scouting trips into any 4 or 5 star players during cycle one. Consider it an insurance premium so that you aren't left on the outside looking in on a team 1000 miles away with mediocre effort on a stud in your backyard that you could have yourself. If other B type prestige teams follow this fatchance approach high prestige teams will have less of w monopoly on all the 4 and 5 star recruits. Which should return some balance back to D 1.
8/31/2011 2:58 PM
Posted by tianyi7886 on 8/31/2011 12:42:00 PM (view original):
Posted by fatchance on 8/31/2011 12:23:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tianyi7886 on 8/31/2011 11:44:00 AM (view original):
Posted by fatchance on 8/31/2011 11:17:00 AM (view original):
Division pulldown that signed with Washington who was recruiting him from 1000 miles away vs. Myself who was 10 miles away. He said I was a back up, scouting trips said he was enamored with the big boys, etc. He was a 4 star recruit, Washington is an A- prestige while my Colorado team is a B-. Ironically I was able to recruit a 5 star this same recruiting class with zero pulldown and last season I pulldown a 5 star with less than a 100 scouting trips...I will attempt to copy and paste link but not sure if I can pull that off with my phone.
He's considering Washington, which may be why he gave you the backup message but never got pulled down. When the players top choices are considering him, why would he ever consider you, his backup choice?
Um, so you are saying it is impossible to pulldown a player with a team on him? Or are you suggesting that he would of required even more scouting trips because the team already on him had put a large amount of money into him? I am trying figure out how the pulldown works at the division 1 level. If it is impossible to pulldown a player with another team on them then I would suggest to all B/B- prestige coaches to do a 75 or 100 or whatever scouting trips on all 4 and 5 star recruits close to home so that they atleast have the option to recruit said players. I am sure some old guard coaches benefiting from others ignorance would not appreciate this move becoming the norm but it would seem necessary based on the significance of 4/5 star recruits and tourney success. Now on the other hand if you are saying the amount I needed to put into scouting trips had to be much higher because Tue team on him put enough recruiting effort that 135 scouting trips did not put me within pulldown range I could respect that. This thread is far more about educating myself and others as opposed to just a complaint.
I'm not at D1, but for my D2 and D3 teams, I never pulled down players that already has a higher division team on them. My logic is, I'm the backup team but the player already has his top choices on him, no way I can sign him. 
I've actually done it a bunch of times, it's usually not that hard. However it completely depends on how much effort they've put in. If they are *tight* or "very solid" I don't wast my time. I've never tried to pulldown somebody who was considering a school from a higher division and used more than 30 Scouting trips.
8/31/2011 3:20 PM
Maybe I shouldn't have said D2 and D3 (because I have beat out a D2 simai with my D3 team) but I have never tried to pulldown a D1 player with my D2 team that is considering a D1 team, and i don't think I ever will. I remember reading it in a conf forum on D1 which said that a C prestige D1 team can beat out any D2 team with as little as a promised start. 

I think all of this has something to do with prestige being more powerful in D1, which makes D2 recruiting v. D1  (especially against C or higher) nearly impossible.

8/31/2011 3:48 PM
In Crum, my B- team had a 5 star recruit drop down (not pulldown) that was already considering an A school.  However his FSS said that he was "wide open".  So I think a recruit may be "non pull-downable" if he is strongly considering a better school.
8/31/2011 4:36 PM
I would tend to highly, highly doubt that it is ever "impossible" to pull down a recruit that lists you as a backup option.  It may be that the cost is so great it would never be a viable option, but I'm fairly confident it's always just a matter of cost rather than something that would "never" happen.
8/31/2011 5:22 PM
Posted by kmasonbx1 on 8/31/2011 3:20:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tianyi7886 on 8/31/2011 12:42:00 PM (view original):
Posted by fatchance on 8/31/2011 12:23:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tianyi7886 on 8/31/2011 11:44:00 AM (view original):
Posted by fatchance on 8/31/2011 11:17:00 AM (view original):
Division pulldown that signed with Washington who was recruiting him from 1000 miles away vs. Myself who was 10 miles away. He said I was a back up, scouting trips said he was enamored with the big boys, etc. He was a 4 star recruit, Washington is an A- prestige while my Colorado team is a B-. Ironically I was able to recruit a 5 star this same recruiting class with zero pulldown and last season I pulldown a 5 star with less than a 100 scouting trips...I will attempt to copy and paste link but not sure if I can pull that off with my phone.
He's considering Washington, which may be why he gave you the backup message but never got pulled down. When the players top choices are considering him, why would he ever consider you, his backup choice?
Um, so you are saying it is impossible to pulldown a player with a team on him? Or are you suggesting that he would of required even more scouting trips because the team already on him had put a large amount of money into him? I am trying figure out how the pulldown works at the division 1 level. If it is impossible to pulldown a player with another team on them then I would suggest to all B/B- prestige coaches to do a 75 or 100 or whatever scouting trips on all 4 and 5 star recruits close to home so that they atleast have the option to recruit said players. I am sure some old guard coaches benefiting from others ignorance would not appreciate this move becoming the norm but it would seem necessary based on the significance of 4/5 star recruits and tourney success. Now on the other hand if you are saying the amount I needed to put into scouting trips had to be much higher because Tue team on him put enough recruiting effort that 135 scouting trips did not put me within pulldown range I could respect that. This thread is far more about educating myself and others as opposed to just a complaint.
I'm not at D1, but for my D2 and D3 teams, I never pulled down players that already has a higher division team on them. My logic is, I'm the backup team but the player already has his top choices on him, no way I can sign him. 
I've actually done it a bunch of times, it's usually not that hard. However it completely depends on how much effort they've put in. If they are *tight* or "very solid" I don't wast my time. I've never tried to pulldown somebody who was considering a school from a higher division and used more than 30 Scouting trips.
Mason beat me to the punch on this one.  D2 teams can pull down players that already have a D1 team on them (I've also done it myself several times), if and only if, the FSS (Word on the Street) says that they are wide open to other efforts, or something along those lines.  If WOTS says the D1 school is "tight" or "very solid" as Mason said, then it would be nearly impossible for a D2 team to outrecruit the D1 team.  Not impossible, but very close to that, simply because the amount of effort needed to overcome the D1 team would be nearly impossible for the D2 team to match.  Furthermore, if the D1 team happens to be coached by a human, you probably better pass, even if he says he's open to other offers, simply because the human coach can throw more recruiting dollars at him, while Simmy has basically already blown his wad.

I've also noticed recently that if a D2 coach IS trying to pull down a D1 player that a Sim team is on, he probably needs to go after him quickly before the considering credit starts to build up.  I've been burned a couple of time recently because I waited to long to try to steal Simmy's player and by then the considering credit made it just too hard to overcome.  Lesson learned, if you're gonna do it, do it quickly (like as soon as the Word on the Street comes out).  Hope this helps someone at least. 
8/31/2011 7:35 PM
Posted by dahsdebater on 8/31/2011 5:22:00 PM (view original):
I would tend to highly, highly doubt that it is ever "impossible" to pull down a recruit that lists you as a backup option.  It may be that the cost is so great it would never be a viable option, but I'm fairly confident it's always just a matter of cost rather than something that would "never" happen.
This.  I should have just said this in my previous post, would have saved alot of time and typing.
8/31/2011 7:36 PM

Agree with angmar, as a D2 school I would never try to pull down a recruit a D1 human is on unless it was very obvious that they had almost no money to fight me off. However I wouldn't hesitate to do battle a D2 school with a D3 school if I thought I had at least 1.3:1 money edge.

8/31/2011 7:49 PM
OK, it could just be that I've always used the term differently, but isn't a pulldown when a school from a lower division attempts to recruit a player who is initially listed (to them) as being a higher division recruit?

That is, to my mind, Division 1 Colorado cannot be pulling down *anyone* because they are Division 1, and so there is no higher division to pull from. The question then, in this case, is how many scouting trips does it take to take away a recruit from a higher prestige school in your same division, which is a very different question (to me, anyway) than how many scouting trips might it take to pull a recruit down.

Does everyone else just use pulldown to mean any recruiting/battle/whatever?

8/31/2011 10:34 PM
Posted by zbrent716 on 8/31/2011 10:35:00 PM (view original):
OK, it could just be that I've always used the term differently, but isn't a pulldown when a school from a lower division attempts to recruit a player who is initially listed (to them) as being a higher division recruit?

That is, to my mind, Division 1 Colorado cannot be pulling down *anyone* because they are Division 1, and so there is no higher division to pull from. The question then, in this case, is how many scouting trips does it take to take away a recruit from a higher prestige school in your same division, which is a very different question (to me, anyway) than how many scouting trips might it take to pull a recruit down.

Does everyone else just use pulldown to mean any recruiting/battle/whatever?

D1 with lower prestige, you still need to pulldown the better players. 
8/31/2011 10:40 PM
I've had to on occasion pulldown players with my A- West Virginia team but that's only when somebody else gets on him first.
8/31/2011 10:51 PM
Posted by fatchance on 8/31/2011 2:58:00 PM (view original):
For the record I did attempt to recruit Suzuki the player of subject during the first cycle but he rejected my visits. So I proceeded to try and pull him down in cycle 2, Washington put in such an effort that he was the lone wolf on Suzuki such that I was left wondering whether the number of scouting trips which 30 was not enough perhaps or it wasn't enough because Washington put in a lot more recruiting effort. I went on to pluck away with 5 trips here and 10 trips there all the way to signings....So far it seems like once a high prestige is on a player then only other high prestige teams can recruit said player. So I will and encourage others to as well to put a crap load of scouting trips into any 4 or 5 star players during cycle one. Consider it an insurance premium so that you aren't left on the outside looking in on a team 1000 miles away with mediocre effort on a stud in your backyard that you could have yourself. If other B type prestige teams follow this fatchance approach high prestige teams will have less of w monopoly on all the 4 and 5 star recruits. Which should return some balance back to D 1.
So you were getting killed by considering credit as well?

Additionally did this player want to play far from home? That could have hurt you as well.
8/31/2011 11:00 PM
Posted by zbrent716 on 8/31/2011 10:35:00 PM (view original):
OK, it could just be that I've always used the term differently, but isn't a pulldown when a school from a lower division attempts to recruit a player who is initially listed (to them) as being a higher division recruit?

That is, to my mind, Division 1 Colorado cannot be pulling down *anyone* because they are Division 1, and so there is no higher division to pull from. The question then, in this case, is how many scouting trips does it take to take away a recruit from a higher prestige school in your same division, which is a very different question (to me, anyway) than how many scouting trips might it take to pull a recruit down.

Does everyone else just use pulldown to mean any recruiting/battle/whatever?

I think you're just defining things to literally ... the term pulldown can be applied to any player who tells you that you're a backup option.
9/1/2011 7:26 AM
grit is correct, pulldown doesn't mean pulling down from a higher division, its associated with recruiting a player that initially tells you that you are a backup option.
9/1/2011 10:48 AM
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135 scouting trips not enough! Topic

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