I understand that HD tries to discourage lateral moves - coaches are supposed to build their programs and either stay or move up.  But now things have come to a head in my D3 program - Bethany/Naismith.

I was just getting the program off the ground.  The last Sim recruits left and I made the PIT final four last season.  It's in a good recruiting area in WV, just a shout away from Ohio and Pennsylvania.  Plus, I landed a PG this season with the potential to be a really sweet D3 player.  I honestly don't want to leave.

But we're losing another coach at the end of this season (in the next couple of days), which leaves the ODAC in Naismith with 2 human coaches and 10 Sim AI teams.  Sure, I might be able to win the conference most years (though I'm like 9-42 vs llcoach at Hampden Sydney).  But it's going to be a major struggle scheduling for a good RPI and the conference bonus money after each season is going to suck.

So I'm looking around at other conferences and I've found a few that are active, mostly human coaches, some with multiple NT championships.  Playing in those conferences will be a major challenge and I can probably expect to get my butt handed to me most seasons, especially for the next 4 or 5.  That's fine with me.  I suppose it comes down to not having any camaraderie with a conference full of SIM programs.

I'm anguishing about this decision.  I'd love to stay with Bethany since I think I can win with it, but I long for a conference where the coaches actually chat a little and I don't have to schedule Murderer's Row in the OOC just to get a decent NT berth.

I'd appreciate your thoughts.  Are lateral moves that big of a deal?  Will a loyalty hit hurt me that much?  Would you stay where you've built  something and know you can win, or move somewhere that you can be challenged?

What is your goal in HD? If it is to stay at D3 and build a powerhouse in a competitive conference, then a lateral move would be ok.

Is it to move up to D2 and eventually D1? If that is the case I would highly recommend staying where you are.

Remember - regardless of your goal in HD - if your choice is to take a lateral job you'll be looking at an F loyalty, which means you aren't going to be able to move anytime soon in the near future.

Posted by zhawks on 9/1/2011 1:52:00 PM (view original):
What is your goal in HD? If it is to stay at D3 and build a powerhouse in a competitive conference, then a lateral move would be ok.

Is it to move up to D2 and eventually D1? If that is the case I would highly recommend staying where you are.

Remember - regardless of your goal in HD - if your choice is to take a lateral job you'll be looking at an F loyalty, which means you aren't going to be able to move anytime soon in the near future.

Wow!  F loyalty?  Will that impact recruiting?   In season 12, I had one of those freebie accounts for 1 season at Hardin-Simmons.  When I came back 35 seasons later, I had a B loyalty.  It takes that long to shrug off an F?  

I have a D2 team on Smith already (Abilene Christian) which I'm enjoying and is my main HD team.  Bethany was just my "play" account for fun - fun being a second chance to recruit after ACU is done, and just try to win some games.  But so far Bethany hasn't even made the NT so there's a lot of work to be done.

I have no interest in moving up to D1.

The last time I made a lateral D3 move (it was a while ago) it was an F, it could have changed, but I'd expect an F and be happy with anything higher.

You can move to d2 without ever making the NT, so if you enjoy d2 / want to try to get a team to d1 you could move to a d2 conference with human coaches maybe? That is the only way that I can think of you can get into a human conference while not dealing with a loyalty drop.

If your goal is to build a powerhouse in D3, staying in a mostly empty conf isn't a terrible idea. It gives you flexibility in recruiting and player development, since you can sign FR for cheap with starts/minutes. You can also play your FR for alot of minutes to accelerate their growth. Honestly, unless you are a great coach who can recruit well year in and year out, the bonus in recruiting cash might not outweigh the much higher level of competition during conf play. 

I have not and never will claim to be a coaching genius :)

Thanks you guys, you're helping me here.

 Like zhawks said I believe you will drop in loyalty however that doesn't affect recruiting at all. The only thing it affects is you going somewhere else which shouldn't be a problem if you find the conference you want to be in.

 Also I don't think it will take more then 5-6 seasons to get your loyalty back up.

Posted by jbob23 on 9/1/2011 3:00:00 PM (view original):
 Like zhawks said I believe you will drop in loyalty however that doesn't affect recruiting at all. The only thing it affects is you going somewhere else which shouldn't be a problem if you find the conference you want to be in.

 Also I don't think it will take more then 5-6 seasons to get your loyalty back up.

Yup exactly, but if you have desires to move on 5-6 seasons can be a very long time!

You'll more consistently make the NT in the empty conference, which means it will be cheaper for you to play the game.  I don't know whether or not that's a consideration for you or not.  Depending on the conference, playing in a full conference may or may not help with recruiting.  Obviously you get a cash bonus, but in many cases D3 conferences in particular have close geographic spacing, so the competition for cheap local recruits can more than cover the extra money.  I find that there is a pretty good split among top teams in most worlds between teams from full conferences and teams from empty conferences, so obviously it's possible to win and compete at the highest level either way.  In the recently completed Knight D3 tournament the Final Four included 1 team from a full conference, 1 team from a conference with 2 human coaches, and 2 teams from approximately half-full conferences.

Posted by zhawks on 9/1/2011 3:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by jbob23 on 9/1/2011 3:00:00 PM (view original):
 Like zhawks said I believe you will drop in loyalty however that doesn't affect recruiting at all. The only thing it affects is you going somewhere else which shouldn't be a problem if you find the conference you want to be in.

 Also I don't think it will take more then 5-6 seasons to get your loyalty back up.

Yup exactly, but if you have desires to move on 5-6 seasons can be a very long time!

Since I already have a D2 team I like, I would expect 5 or 6 seasons with my D3 squad to be no problem.

But now there's another wrinkle.  Searching around, I found a D2 team with good prestige and consecutive NT appearances that will be coming open tonight.  If I can even qualify, do I want another D2 team?  Still asking that question of myself.

I kill myself with all this second-guessing. :)  I guess if I was ok with a conference full of Sims it wouldn't be a big deal, but it kinda feels like I'm playing with myself.

Er - BY myself, I mean!

Posted by dahsdebater on 9/1/2011 3:34:00 PM (view original):
You'll more consistently make the NT in the empty conference, which means it will be cheaper for you to play the game.  I don't know whether or not that's a consideration for you or not.  Depending on the conference, playing in a full conference may or may not help with recruiting.  Obviously you get a cash bonus, but in many cases D3 conferences in particular have close geographic spacing, so the competition for cheap local recruits can more than cover the extra money.  I find that there is a pretty good split among top teams in most worlds between teams from full conferences and teams from empty conferences, so obviously it's possible to win and compete at the highest level either way.  In the recently completed Knight D3 tournament the Final Four included 1 team from a full conference, 1 team from a conference with 2 human coaches, and 2 teams from approximately half-full conferences.

Good info, Dahs.  Making me feel a little less apprehensive about staying.  I *would* like to see how good my soph PG could get with a couple more seasons.

Not that he has any feelings one way or the other, of course.

Posted by ethan66 on 9/1/2011 3:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by zhawks on 9/1/2011 3:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by jbob23 on 9/1/2011 3:00:00 PM (view original):
 Like zhawks said I believe you will drop in loyalty however that doesn't affect recruiting at all. The only thing it affects is you going somewhere else which shouldn't be a problem if you find the conference you want to be in.

 Also I don't think it will take more then 5-6 seasons to get your loyalty back up.

Yup exactly, but if you have desires to move on 5-6 seasons can be a very long time!

Since I already have a D2 team I like, I would expect 5 or 6 seasons with my D3 squad to be no problem.

But now there's another wrinkle.  Searching around, I found a D2 team with good prestige and consecutive NT appearances that will be coming open tonight.  If I can even qualify, do I want another D2 team?  Still asking that question of myself.

I kill myself with all this second-guessing. :)  I guess if I was ok with a conference full of Sims it wouldn't be a big deal, but it kinda feels like I'm playing with myself.

Er - BY myself, I mean!

That's a question you'll have to decide, it would give you the ability to move one up to d1 if that's what you wanted to do at some point, whereas at d3 you'd still have to go through d2 to get there.

Not necessarily true...

Like I said earlier: I have no interest in D1.  If I did, I already have a D2 team to use as a stepping stone.  So that's a non-factor in my decision.

My priorities: 

1. Have fun
2. Recruit
3. Win games
4. Get to the NT
5. Have fun

To avoid the loyalty drop you could allow your seasons to expire and apply for an open job while unemployed.