Posted by girt25 on 9/13/2011 8:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bow2dacowz on 9/13/2011 7:38:00 PM (view original):
others may or may not agree, but i think it also absolutely kills a mid major to lose a guy to EE.  the odds of one of those players leaving should be significantly less than the odds of a similarly rated player at a big time program, even if the player at the big time program is a reserve.  right now it's less only in the sense that it happens way less often that a mid major gets a player of that caliber...but when they do i think it should be very, very unlikely for that player to leave, like 10% or less.  whether or not you believe that this is more in line with what happens in real life (i do), anything that helps keep the playing field remotely fair and interesting in the name of competition for non BCS coaches in D1 is a good move

I would tend to agree with this. Wouldn't say make it impossible, but reducing the risk sounds right to me.

And losing multiple can be devastating. 

Posted by oldresorter on 9/14/2011 11:01:00 AM (view original):

Posted by mlitney on 9/14/2011 10:52:00 AM (view original):
How does the sim decide how many players they need to leave early?  With more Euro's entering the draft, I'd bet the likelihood of college players leaving early has dropped off some.  There is simply a smaller chance that they'd be drafted.  Are there Euro's drafted or is it just college players?  This could make quite a difference in the number of players who leave early.

Interesting insight, as far as I know there is no HD function that adds European league guys to the NBA draft. 

My son and I thought this season it seemed 'Dirk' fever caught some of the GM's, kind of counteracting 'Darco' fever from 8 or 10 years back.  But I have not seen the real data on Euro's drafted, might be 3 or 5 every season, might be some have 10 or 12 while other drafts have 1 or none?????

That is a good question... wonder if that could be incorporated some how. I think EE's need to be limited but if you limit it too much you run the risk of what OR mentioned - the stashing of players. Maybe based on your baseline prestige there is more / less of a chance that multiple players leave? (IMO this means more of a need for moving baseline prestige again.)

Quick search of the intertube yields nada for how many internationals (pet peeve: Not euro! see China/Argent/Canada/Nigeria/etc.)  selected for the last 10 NBA drafts. And me not smart enuff to figure out them forner names on the draft lists availabul.

Doomey... Nice follow-up post BTW. I don't think EE's are perfect. I actually left a Big-6 school and went back to the mid-majors in frustration after my only 5* stud who was going to help me climb up the ranks left after his jr season. One in which my team didn't even make the PIT.  I just still feel they are one of the few random equalizers left in the game.

I have had EE's from teams that weren't NT worthy twice.... so trust me, I sure don't think the system is perfect.

Posted by zhawks on 9/14/2011 3:09:00 PM (view original):

Posted by girt25 on 9/13/2011 8:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bow2dacowz on 9/13/2011 7:38:00 PM (view original):
others may or may not agree, but i think it also absolutely kills a mid major to lose a guy to EE.  the odds of one of those players leaving should be significantly less than the odds of a similarly rated player at a big time program, even if the player at the big time program is a reserve.  right now it's less only in the sense that it happens way less often that a mid major gets a player of that caliber...but when they do i think it should be very, very unlikely for that player to leave, like 10% or less.  whether or not you believe that this is more in line with what happens in real life (i do), anything that helps keep the playing field remotely fair and interesting in the name of competition for non BCS coaches in D1 is a good move

I would tend to agree with this. Wouldn't say make it impossible, but reducing the risk sounds right to me.

And losing multiple can be devastating. 

I'm choosing this post to respond to but want to address a few points that have been made across this thread. 

First off, I'm coaching at Miami in Phelan who doomey mentioned lost 4 EEs this season after a Final Four run.  I took a long hard look at dropping HD after that.  I had only 2 graduating and figured I'd lose one, maybe two and that's part of the game.  Now I have 6 schols to fill.  Despite that, let me be clear, I'm not posting here to gripe about EE's.  I'm posting here to set the record straight and correct all the completely ignorant things being said by some of the coaches here so that they do not become "forum fact".

1) to whoever was saying that EEs on top of large graduating classes for high majors is poor planning...  That's one of the most ignorant things I've read on this board and that's saying a lot.  How can the top-tier teams be expected to space out classes when they're constantly losing players to EE?  I've lost 8 EEs in the last four seasons.  5 JR, 2 SO, 1 FR.  You tell me how I'm supposed to space out my classes in that environment?  I had 2 SRs on my team and now I have 6 schols to fill.  And, averaging 2 lost EEs a year, its pretty much been like this for awhile now.  Like a lot of high major coaches, I take it in stride.  But to say that coaches make it to this level and stay here while being unaware of how to space out classes is just dumb.

2) to whoever said that the high majors will just reload with 6 5* players and resume domination...  That's also one of the most ignorant things I've read on this board.  I am a high A+ in a conference with 43k in extra recruiting money.  I have 6 schols open and carryover in the 5-10k range.  I will probably land a few 5*s, absolutely.  But I will also probably land a few 4* and a 3*.  I expect to have a couple down years where I'm working hard to make the NT.

Please stop randomly making stuff up and throwing it around the forums like its true.  

I've had 6 EE's in the last 3 seasons at an ACC "megaconference" school and i don't see it as being a problem.  It hurts for sure especially when your trying to be consistent but its an equalizer in this game and a necessity in my opinion.  My EE's became a consistent issue when my team got good on a consistent basis.  I'll trade that all day long versus the alternative of being a mediocre program who doesn't have to worry as much about EE's.

" to whoever said that the high majors will just reload with 6 5* players and resume domination... That's also one of the most ignorant things I've read on this board. I am a high A+ in a conference with 43k in extra recruiting money. I have 6 schols open and carryover in the 5-10k range. I will probably land a few 5*s, absolutely. But I will also probably land a few 4* and a 3*. I expect to have a couple down years where I'm working hard to make the NT"


Oh, no!  Only few 5's and a couple 4's?   YOU'VE BEEN SCREWED.  

How will you ever compete?

  I have had one 4 in 8 seasons at Princeton.  I make the NT every year.   I think you'll find a way to survive.

Posted by namshub on 9/16/2011 8:37:00 AM (view original):
I've had 6 EE's in the last 3 seasons at an ACC "megaconference" school and i don't see it as being a problem.  It hurts for sure especially when your trying to be consistent but its an equalizer in this game and a necessity in my opinion.  My EE's became a consistent issue when my team got good on a consistent basis.  I'll trade that all day long versus the alternative of being a mediocre program who doesn't have to worry as much about EE's.

Nams - I used to suggest that the 2nd EE be harder to get than the first, I still maybe think that, but my top change to EE would be to not let a guy EE from a bad team - since 'bad team' is impossible to define, I'd make it simple, only guys from BCS teams will EE - which would mean fewer EE's, but so be it, not a big deal at all.  I think 75% of the d1 coaches would think that is fair.  I have a slightly more complex variation of that, which would even open it up to BSC schools getting spared EE's, say schools rated over 100 RPI the prior season?

Other than that, I get hammered by EE's just like everyone else, but I understand, and it makes the game more challenging, and the randomness sort of makes it all the more challenging and somewhat exciting - and it does make me angry at times - but that is OK

OR, exciting wouldn't be my first choice of adjectives! The morning after the NT is always one of the most stress-inducing in Chapel Hill ...

Posted by Trentonjoe on 9/16/2011 8:59:00 AM (view original):
" to whoever said that the high majors will just reload with 6 5* players and resume domination... That's also one of the most ignorant things I've read on this board. I am a high A+ in a conference with 43k in extra recruiting money. I have 6 schols open and carryover in the 5-10k range. I will probably land a few 5*s, absolutely. But I will also probably land a few 4* and a 3*. I expect to have a couple down years where I'm working hard to make the NT"


Oh, no!  Only few 5's and a couple 4's?   YOU'VE BEEN SCREWED.  

How will you ever compete?

  I have had one 4 in 8 seasons at Princeton.  I make the NT every year.   I think you'll find a way to survive.

Dude.  Stop it.  You're making a fool of yourself. 

Of course an A+ team in a BCS conference will recruit better than Princeton.

can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not satisfied with just making the NT regularly.

Posted by Trentonjoe on 9/16/2011 10:56:00 AM (view original):
But what's your point?  You lose good players, you replace them with good players.  Are they worse than the ones you had?  Yeah, but they're  better than 95% of everyone elses.

EE may hurt your chances to win a NT (which like only 10 teams have a chance of winning) but they aren't going to cripple your team to the point where you can't make the NT.

I have no idea what your full resume looks like since I can only see the history in the two worlds you're active in, but I'm guessing you may not have ever been in a very competitive BCS conference based on your comments.  

At an A+ BCS school I'm not going to last long if my players aren't better than 95% of other teams' players so, once again, your comments are kind of pointless.

But losing your top talent in the JR class along with 2 graduating seniors means that I have very little experienced talent on my team.  Combine that with 6 freshmen in a conference as competitive as the ACC means that there's a very real chance I won't make the NT because I will not be able to win 14 games.  I'm not in a half-filled league with a ton of sims to beat up on.

I get that you want to gripe and make what you think are clever/funny comments but this thread would be better if you actually contributed something factual or based on experience instead of just whining.

Here's my point.   

The guys on the top complain about losing EE because it hinders their ability to stay on the top.     The guys on the bottom (or more accurately the middle) have very little chance.   

I find it rather funny that the select few who have the elite teams can complain that the system is broken when the system is designed to keep them where they are.

To me it's like complaining it's hot when is 73 degrees.

Posted by dacj501 on 9/16/2011 10:58:00 AM (view original):
can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not satisfied with just making the NT regularly.

Nor am I ... so I do that until a school with a better Baseline prestige (that is, a team in a better conference) opens up ... then I apply for the job there.

What I do not expect is to make IUPUI into a perennial final 4 team.

If I want to go to the final 4 all the time, well then I need to get a team that has an A+ baseline prestige and recruit the best talent ... I don't think I should expect Butler to continually out recruit Duke or Kentucky.  If I want to win like Duke and Kentucky, I need to get Duke or Kentucky (or some other A+ baseline team).