Posted by rednation58 on 9/27/2011 7:16:00 PM (view original):
well if ATH is the dominant trait in the game then does anyone know what speed is truly good for besides shooting the ball? I did hear from a friend that this new engine would give more relevance to ATH but I assumed this was more for front court players. I didnt think about the potential fouls ATH could cause at that spot. 2 questions one does a guard have to have a high LP to be able to generate fouls with high ATH or does this not matter? and 2 well I already asked it, what is speed really good for besides shooting the ball if ATH is really dominant? 

Posted by rednation58 on 9/27/2011 7:16:00 PM (view original):
well if ATH is the dominant trait in the game then does anyone know what speed is truly good for besides shooting the ball? I did hear from a friend that this new engine would give more relevance to ATH but I assumed this was more for front court players. I didnt think about the potential fouls ATH could cause at that spot. 2 questions one does a guard have to have a high LP to be able to generate fouls with high ATH or does this not matter? and 2 well I already asked it, what is speed really good for besides shooting the ball if ATH is really dominant? 

Posted by rednation58 on 9/27/2011 7:16:00 PM (view original):
well if ATH is the dominant trait in the game then does anyone know what speed is truly good for besides shooting the ball? I did hear from a friend that this new engine would give more relevance to ATH but I assumed this was more for front court players. I didnt think about the potential fouls ATH could cause at that spot. 2 questions one does a guard have to have a high LP to be able to generate fouls with high ATH or does this not matter? and 2 well I already asked it, what is speed really good for besides shooting the ball if ATH is really dominant? 

Posted by rednation58 on 9/27/2011 8:08:00 PM (view original):
well ok, if you could go back in time and recruit again, what type of players would you get? What would be your ratio of ATH/SP? And runner up is not all that bad with slow guards but are you saying you had 24 turnovers because your guards are slow?

Posted by djp4516 on 9/27/2011 8:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by rednation58 on 9/27/2011 8:08:00 PM (view original):
well ok, if you could go back in time and recruit again, what type of players would you get? What would be your ratio of ATH/SP? And runner up is not all that bad with slow guards but are you saying you had 24 turnovers because your guards are slow?

There is no ratio for me - I think there is a minimum threshold that needs to be met for both, although I want as much of both as possible (tied to whatever division you're recruiting for). I want every player on my team to get to 60 athleticism if possible.  Of course, I'd love to have 60 ath 95 speed guards, but obviously that can't always happen and you end up settling for less. I try to make it a priority to have at least one fast (85+ speed) starting guard, preferably the point guard. That didn't happen with my Merrimack team, but my starting PG has 81 ath and 84 defense, which, with my m2m, makes him serviceable, although i'd love to bench him for a faster PG (Phillips could get there with playing time)

and yes, I think that's exactly why I turned it over so much. His guards were too fast for mine, the first half play by play tells the story. It was an absolute disaster to read, but after awhile (don't ask me how, lol), we ended up getting it together.

I realize that all of these answers you're getting are a little to broad for your tastes, but there's really no set formula to making a successful team, except to have athleticism and defense. You will not see a team with low athleticism and defense make it far into the national tournament. Other than that, it's pretty much anything goes to an extent. If anyone can name me the last national tournament winner in D2 with below 50 team ath/defense, I'd love to see it.

Posted by rednation58 on 9/27/2011 8:24:00 PM (view original):
yea I am seeing that Ath is important although it seems in your description SP has way more precedence on D while ATH is more of a one on one situation when it comes to D. Even on O you describe how SP gets you shots anywhere on the court and gets you fouls. I thought ATh would get you to the line more than SP because the ability to shoot over someone seems like it would create more fouls than running around them for an open look.

Both are important but speed seems to be more useful on D and O in your example. . As far as scoring goes, I have a pg that has 57 ATH and 77 SP. His LP is around 40 and his perimeter is in the 70s... his only drawback to me is his crappy stamina and FT shooting but I wonder how well he can score if i put him at -2 on peremeter now that I have this new found knowledge.

I also have a SG who is 60ATH and 70 SP but his LP is atrocious at 13 i think while he has like 90 PER... could this player be effective of the inside or would i see a lot of misses open layup or blows dunks in the play by play lol?

Think of ath as a quick movement. It can be side to side or straight up. If you can jump high and quick then you can see over a defender and get an open look. If you can move to the side quickly you can get by a defender and that could lead to an open shot in the lane. Speed will help you get past that defender once the athleticism has started the process. 
 
 I don't think speed is better but it can make up for things and help ath out. On O I said it can help you get open in a zone or help you get fouls. Well the zone is only one defense and not one that is used much. As far as fouls go, you first need to have the athleticism first to create the opportunity for your opponent to foul. The speed is the part once your by the defender. I think fouls come far greater when driving to the basket and not on perimeter shots.

 As far as the two on defense. Your going to be in more situations when you are directly guarding your opponent therefore the athleticism comes in handy first. Keeping in front of your guy helps a long way in stopping him. The defense attribute certainly contributes to this as well. You also have to throw in IQ.

 I hope this shows you how I think athleticism means more. Speed may be involved in a little more but isn't as important but still important in it's own right. 

 To your questions about your players. How does your  PG score from 3pt range. If he isn't even shooting 30% from there then I would go with a -2. It doesn't matter if he doesn't shoot FT well. He will get people in foul trouble and he will still score a fair amount. I don't like the thought of your SG doing anything but shooting from the perimeter. He should be at 0 or +1 depending on how well he shoots the 3's.

Posted by rednation58 on 9/27/2011 8:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by djp4516 on 9/27/2011 8:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by rednation58 on 9/27/2011 8:08:00 PM (view original):
well ok, if you could go back in time and recruit again, what type of players would you get? What would be your ratio of ATH/SP? And runner up is not all that bad with slow guards but are you saying you had 24 turnovers because your guards are slow?

There is no ratio for me - I think there is a minimum threshold that needs to be met for both, although I want as much of both as possible (tied to whatever division you're recruiting for). I want every player on my team to get to 60 athleticism if possible.  Of course, I'd love to have 60 ath 95 speed guards, but obviously that can't always happen and you end up settling for less. I try to make it a priority to have at least one fast (85+ speed) starting guard, preferably the point guard. That didn't happen with my Merrimack team, but my starting PG has 81 ath and 84 defense, which, with my m2m, makes him serviceable, although i'd love to bench him for a faster PG (Phillips could get there with playing time)

and yes, I think that's exactly why I turned it over so much. His guards were too fast for mine, the first half play by play tells the story. It was an absolute disaster to read, but after awhile (don't ask me how, lol), we ended up getting it together.

I realize that all of these answers you're getting are a little to broad for your tastes, but there's really no set formula to making a successful team, except to have athleticism and defense. You will not see a team with low athleticism and defense make it far into the national tournament. Other than that, it's pretty much anything goes to an extent. If anyone can name me the last national tournament winner in D2 with below 50 team ath/defense, I'd love to see it.

see that's the reason for all my questions. You played Chico in the NT championship and ALL his guards are super fast with low to moderate ATH stats. It just seems like the coach benefited more from speed than ATH to me. I didn't get a chance to read the play by play but looking at your guards speeds vs. his I can imagine why it was a disaster.

I played Chico earlier in my OOC schedule this season and we went 5 OTs! But in the end he won and I also believe it was due to his much speedier backcourt. I have 70 + sp guards in my lineup and he has 90 maybe even 95+ speed guys... In the end it seems speed won out... maybe I'm wrong but out of everyone's examples whether they agree with me or not speed seems to have had some type of factor in their players not hitting that higher ceiling of success. Yes ATH was very important but SP seems to be the difference between W and L's....

And your answers are actually perfect. I'm a young coach in the game and I'm still trying to establish my own system for coaching and recruiting. I just want the best system for me to have a successful team. if everything is constant with this engine then depending on what schemes you run and if you have the right stats in the right categories, you won't be held at the mercy of the engine.

Posted by jbob23 on 9/27/2011 8:56:00 PM (view original):

Posted by rednation58 on 9/27/2011 8:24:00 PM (view original):
yea I am seeing that Ath is important although it seems in your description SP has way more precedence on D while ATH is more of a one on one situation when it comes to D. Even on O you describe how SP gets you shots anywhere on the court and gets you fouls. I thought ATh would get you to the line more than SP because the ability to shoot over someone seems like it would create more fouls than running around them for an open look.

Both are important but speed seems to be more useful on D and O in your example. . As far as scoring goes, I have a pg that has 57 ATH and 77 SP. His LP is around 40 and his perimeter is in the 70s... his only drawback to me is his crappy stamina and FT shooting but I wonder how well he can score if i put him at -2 on peremeter now that I have this new found knowledge.

I also have a SG who is 60ATH and 70 SP but his LP is atrocious at 13 i think while he has like 90 PER... could this player be effective of the inside or would i see a lot of misses open layup or blows dunks in the play by play lol?

Think of ath as a quick movement. It can be side to side or straight up. If you can jump high and quick then you can see over a defender and get an open look. If you can move to the side quickly you can get by a defender and that could lead to an open shot in the lane. Speed will help you get past that defender once the athleticism has started the process. 
 
 I don't think speed is better but it can make up for things and help ath out. On O I said it can help you get open in a zone or help you get fouls. Well the zone is only one defense and not one that is used much. As far as fouls go, you first need to have the athleticism first to create the opportunity for your opponent to foul. The speed is the part once your by the defender. I think fouls come far greater when driving to the basket and not on perimeter shots.

 As far as the two on defense. Your going to be in more situations when you are directly guarding your opponent therefore the athleticism comes in handy first. Keeping in front of your guy helps a long way in stopping him. The defense attribute certainly contributes to this as well. You also have to throw in IQ.

 I hope this shows you how I think athleticism means more. Speed may be involved in a little more but isn't as important but still important in it's own right. 

 To your questions about your players. How does your  PG score from 3pt range. If he isn't even shooting 30% from there then I would go with a -2. It doesn't matter if he doesn't shoot FT well. He will get people in foul trouble and he will still score a fair amount. I don't like the thought of your SG doing anything but shooting from the perimeter. He should be at 0 or +1 depending on how well he shoots the 3's.