I guess you've seen this in the past but my question would be what is considered "out and out cheating" and when would they take action and what would that action be? I've never heard of anyone getting banned from the game or anything even close to that severity.

There have been players  banned 'for life' but not due to recruiting.  One instance involved a coach who posted inflammatory racist comments in the Forum

This is such a weird thread. I can't believe I have to respond to this - I HAVE A TIMESHEET I NEED TO FINISH AT WORK, FELLAS! I read the 1st page and I'll read the rest when I get home later.

I'm the coach at Charlotte that, I guess, is at the center of this whole controversy. Let me give some background. . .

First things first - this was going to be my last season in Rupp. Actually, I intended last season to be my last, but when WIS transferred out all my remaining seasons, they left an extra. No biggie. No pressure to recruit either - since I wasn't going to be around to develop the freshmen anyways.

  I've asked other vets in the game for help and advice in recruiting this past season, since it's the aspect of the game I really struggle with.  Here's what they suggested:  

I was told to just stick within 100 miles of my area, don't recruit the best player in my area (let an A+ team like UNC have 'em) and accept the fact that you'll probably wind up with 3 walk-ons. Sounds good. The best player I left alone (he either went to Florida or Tennessee) and I recruited against a Sim for John Calle. John Calle (I believe) was 40 miles away in either NC or SC.
 

I spent $40,000 on John Calle and my remaining $55,000 on two other good recruits that I lost in battles, too. So 95k almost exclusively on 3 players and nothing to show for it (dangit!).  I went after the 3 players early to get the considering credit, and spent Home Visits in bunches.

For Calle, I think I spent 30 HVs in the 1st cycle I went after him, then 40 HVs in the 2nd, then 30 HVs in the 3rd cycle. By the time I was done, I gave him a promised start, about 25 minutes promised, a couple Campus Visits, probably close to 25 each in phone calls and letters, and home visits in the 100s.  I'm going by fuzzy memory, but I'm pretty sure that's pretty accurate.  
 

So I thought I locked him up pretty good. A couple of days later, Girt seemed to sign Calle with total ease. So I guess I learned that considering credit is meaningless.
 

I just checked the coaches corner in the SEC in Rupp and can verify that jpmills DID tell his conference mates to go after John Calle - the very player I was targeting. Okay, he didn't mention Calle by name - but it was really thinly veiled. He may have well said, "OhnJay AlleCay". :) Which is strange, since I think I remember battling jpmills in the past and congratulating him after losing a player to him. I never thought there was any bad blood at all or anything!

But that's actually a big reason why I was leaving Rupp in the first place - Coaches in the BCS would look at a team that can't maneuver around their low baseline prestige and just sit back and employ the 'Poach Insert-Non-BCS-team-here" strategy. Who needs to worry about scouting players when you can get another school to pick out good players for your own squad?  But that's just the new recruit generation for ya, now.

 Now onto the part about collusion - I had a hunch that Girt was going to poach me this year. He sent me 'good luck with recruiting' messages that seemed patronizing. My suspicions were inadvertanly confirmed when I sent in a ticket asking to clear up a couple of questions about recruiting. The WIS support team (which was pretty gracious btw) dropped a little tidbit that girt spent about $80,000 on John Calle. So, basically, girt - from a couple of states away - decided to spend $80k on a player who I personally didn't even consider the best player in my zone? He only had 4 open schollies  - a worse prestige - and Conference USA doesn't exactly rack up much playoff money - so basically he blew his whole budget on one dude simply because Charlotte pursued him.  *shrugs*  Thought I'd pass that on.
 

aaaaaannd.....back to my timesheet.  Enjoy the weekend, fellas!

Just thinking about it some more --- and this is pure specualtion --- but I did recruit 3 players early to get the considering credit with about a $95k budget.  Girt may have sitemailed 2 other coaches and said, "Okay - Charlotte is after 3 players.  You take Moe, You take Larry, and I'll take Curly".

It would help to explain the strange messages I got from girt where he creepily wished me well in recruiting.

Anyway, I have no way of proving it one way or another.  The two other coaches who I battled don't seem like the type that would be into that sort of thing, though.

For the record, here's the jp post in question on the Rupp SEC board:

"btw - i can't believe none of have jumped on a pretty salty guard out there. peeps are in on him, but i would think human SEC would win out in the end. crazy that none of us have touched him. i probably should, but i gotta dance with sensing first :)"

Posted by antonsirius on 11/11/2011 5:18:00 PM (view original):
For the record, here's the jp post in question on the Rupp SEC board:

"btw - i can't believe none of have jumped on a pretty salty guard out there. peeps are in on him, but i would think human SEC would win out in the end. crazy that none of us have touched him. i probably should, but i gotta dance with sensing first :)"

You're right - I take back the thinly veiled comment. I thought they specifically mentioned Bama on the sec board. That's what sparked the ticket to wis to begin with - I couldn't figure out why I couldn't shake that sim in my battle no matter how much I spent. Calle was the only player the sim recruited and I thought that had something to do with it.

Wow, this is hysterical. On my other ID, i received three site mails from jpmills, wanting to collude. The guy was crazy.

Posted by survivor45 on 11/11/2011 4:31:00 PM (view original):
This is such a weird thread. I can't believe I have to respond to this - I HAVE A TIMESHEET I NEED TO FINISH AT WORK, FELLAS! I read the 1st page and I'll read the rest when I get home later.

I'm the coach at Charlotte that, I guess, is at the center of this whole controversy. Let me give some background. . .

First things first - this was going to be my last season in Rupp. Actually, I intended last season to be my last, but when WIS transferred out all my remaining seasons, they left an extra. No biggie. No pressure to recruit either - since I wasn't going to be around to develop the freshmen anyways.

  I've asked other vets in the game for help and advice in recruiting this past season, since it's the aspect of the game I really struggle with.  Here's what they suggested:  

I was told to just stick within 100 miles of my area, don't recruit the best player in my area (let an A+ team like UNC have 'em) and accept the fact that you'll probably wind up with 3 walk-ons. Sounds good. The best player I left alone (he either went to Florida or Tennessee) and I recruited against a Sim for John Calle. John Calle (I believe) was 40 miles away in either NC or SC.
 

I spent $40,000 on John Calle and my remaining $55,000 on two other good recruits that I lost in battles, too. So 95k almost exclusively on 3 players and nothing to show for it (dangit!).  I went after the 3 players early to get the considering credit, and spent Home Visits in bunches.

For Calle, I think I spent 30 HVs in the 1st cycle I went after him, then 40 HVs in the 2nd, then 30 HVs in the 3rd cycle. By the time I was done, I gave him a promised start, about 25 minutes promised, a couple Campus Visits, probably close to 25 each in phone calls and letters, and home visits in the 100s.  I'm going by fuzzy memory, but I'm pretty sure that's pretty accurate.  
 

So I thought I locked him up pretty good. A couple of days later, Girt seemed to sign Calle with total ease. So I guess I learned that considering credit is meaningless.
 

I just checked the coaches corner in the SEC in Rupp and can verify that jpmills DID tell his conference mates to go after John Calle - the very player I was targeting. Okay, he didn't mention Calle by name - but it was really thinly veiled. He may have well said, "OhnJay AlleCay". :) Which is strange, since I think I remember battling jpmills in the past and congratulating him after losing a player to him. I never thought there was any bad blood at all or anything!

But that's actually a big reason why I was leaving Rupp in the first place - Coaches in the BCS would look at a team that can't maneuver around their low baseline prestige and just sit back and employ the 'Poach Insert-Non-BCS-team-here" strategy. Who needs to worry about scouting players when you can get another school to pick out good players for your own squad?  But that's just the new recruit generation for ya, now.

 Now onto the part about collusion - I had a hunch that Girt was going to poach me this year. He sent me 'good luck with recruiting' messages that seemed patronizing. My suspicions were inadvertanly confirmed when I sent in a ticket asking to clear up a couple of questions about recruiting. The WIS support team (which was pretty gracious btw) dropped a little tidbit that girt spent about $80,000 on John Calle. So, basically, girt - from a couple of states away - decided to spend $80k on a player who I personally didn't even consider the best player in my zone? He only had 4 open schollies  - a worse prestige - and Conference USA doesn't exactly rack up much playoff money - so basically he blew his whole budget on one dude simply because Charlotte pursued him.  *shrugs*  Thought I'd pass that on.
 

aaaaaannd.....back to my timesheet.  Enjoy the weekend, fellas!

your evaluation of this recruiting battle explains a lot about why you needed to ask for help in recruiting. I'd suggest if you do stick around you ask for more.

Posted by jpmills3 on 11/11/2011 9:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by rednation58 on 11/10/2011 8:24:00 PM (view original):
I think everyone can agree that WIS is slow to move on anything. I've only been playing this game for about half a year but since I've started playing there may have been one change if I'm correct and that was the player avg promise loophole. I'm inclined to believe that this was brought to the forum because WIS would do little if nothing to resolve the situation. Why would they care if the culprits pay good money? And more money than an honest coach if you want to be real about it. 

you are smart sir. They would NOT track ip addresses. I guess a person could use different computers tho. So lesson is cheat away. Sad...

IP Addresses are in every webserver log by default.  If they looked, they would easily be able to tell.  I know they can do this, and they have in the past.

The question really is, is the guy cheating.  If he is, they will be able to figure it out.

Now, just using a different PC will not matter normally either.  You would likely need to go to a different location.  Most people (and even many businesses) have a router (DSL, Cable, etc.) that has 1 real IP address on the outside of the router (sometimes a small group of real IP addresses), while they have one of the internal private networks on the inside of the router.  The real address is used to connect to other places.  So, any machine on the inside of that router would still connect to the WIS site via the same (real) address.  The only way to connect from a different address is normally to go to a different physical location.

The bottom line, they can absolutely and easily tell if someone is connecting more than one ID from the same place.

If that person is also cheating, then they will give them a warning.

But, if they are not asked, then they can't do anything.

JM - I said you need to be patient, that if guys are cheating they will get caught, I did not say they would do it for me, matter of fact, I am not popular at all with customer service.

The WIS support team (which was pretty gracious btw) dropped a little tidbit that girt spent about $80,000 on John Calle.

I'm not sure how the WIS support team was approached but why would they give up this information?    Is this a special occasion or do they give up recruiting information on a regular basis?
btw..  Marshall had a walkon the previous season which probably eliminates carryover cash, 4 open scholarships worth $60k, over $12k in conference tourney money which probably gave girt about $74,000 total.  Seeing that he signed another player and maybe scouted a state or two, the $80,000 number is inflated by at least 15%.

JM - this is what I sent you:

From:

oldresorter

To:

jpmills3

Received:

11/9/2011 7:18:00 PM

Subject:

RE:

Message:

Yea - who knows. I get messages from coaches every once in a while about what to do about cheating, I have already investigated on my own and reported stuff to seble. By and large, seble is very concerned about cracking down on it.

He might act like he is blowing you off, but he has busted up most the cheating in the game. I think he can track actions and IP's in such a manner it is obvious to him once he gets hints of what is going on.

I thought the whole series of messages I got was strange, but I am waiting to hear from Girt to see what he says. I posted to give you some information so you did not get too ridiculed, but going after someone on the forum is not the way I'd recommend doing it, which is why I also stuck up for Dan.

Write your concerns up in a ticket to seble, if there is something wrong, he will figure it out.

good luck

OR

Can't we all just get along?

And play by the rules?