Job Changes Topic

uwrjl93
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I understand most of the logic in regards to moving up, but was wondering if a D3 coach would ever get a D1 offer?  It seems to me that a proven winner in D3 should at least get a shot at some of the worst D1 schools.  Seeing that so many lower tier D1 schools are coached by SIM anyway, why not open it up to a few of the top D3 coaches each year.  That being said, I would also like to see the requirements for taking over those lower level D3 schools a little easier for D2 coaches as well.  If a low D1 school has been awful for years under the SIM couldn't they be open to a D2 coach who has won multiple conference championships and shown a history of winning. (even if it doesn't include sweet 16 appearances?)
11/17/2011 9:50 AM
tianyi7886
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You can move straight from D3 to D1, generally to teams in weak conf with D baseline prestige. If you have extremely strong D3 resume (say 30 seasons, 1000 wins, multiple NC) you can move into a Big 6 conf straight up as well. 
11/17/2011 9:57 AM
uwrjl93
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Posted by tianyi7886 on 11/17/2011 9:57:00 AM (view original):
You can move straight from D3 to D1, generally to teams in weak conf with D baseline prestige. If you have extremely strong D3 resume (say 30 seasons, 1000 wins, multiple NC) you can move into a Big 6 conf straight up as well. 
Fine, but 30 seasons?  So if you relate that to the real world, if I got a head coaching job in D3 at age 30 and was outstanding I could get hired by a D1 school at age 60?

I guess I just feel like the ability to move up is pretty hard even though there are a ton of empty positions.  In the real world a good number of successful D3 or D2 coaches would move up to be an assistant and a bigger program.  That obviously isn't an option here, so I would think it would make sense to make it just a little easier to move up a level if you wanted.

11/17/2011 2:45 PM
tianyi7886
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Posted by uwrjl93 on 11/17/2011 2:45:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tianyi7886 on 11/17/2011 9:57:00 AM (view original):
You can move straight from D3 to D1, generally to teams in weak conf with D baseline prestige. If you have extremely strong D3 resume (say 30 seasons, 1000 wins, multiple NC) you can move into a Big 6 conf straight up as well. 
Fine, but 30 seasons?  So if you relate that to the real world, if I got a head coaching job in D3 at age 30 and was outstanding I could get hired by a D1 school at age 60?

I guess I just feel like the ability to move up is pretty hard even though there are a ton of empty positions.  In the real world a good number of successful D3 or D2 coaches would move up to be an assistant and a bigger program.  That obviously isn't an option here, so I would think it would make sense to make it just a little easier to move up a level if you wanted.

30 is straight from D3 to big 6 conf. Think about how hard that is to do in real life, to go from say coaching a D3 team straight to coaching St. Johns. That's almost impossible.

You can move from D3 to low end D1 pretty easily, probably around 8 good seasons. So you start coaching at Williams at 30, you move to Army at 38-40, then St. Johns at 46, Florida at 50. Sound's pretty reasonable to me. 
11/17/2011 3:18 PM (edited)
tianyi7886
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And I don't think moving up is extremely difficult right now. Take my resume in Rupp.

D3:
50 tianyi7886 35-0 11-0 15-0 9-0 16-0 1 4 A+ Conf Champion
CT Champion
National Champion
49 tianyi7886 32-3 10-1 14-1 8-1 15-1 2 6 A+ Conf Champion
CT Champion
NT (Championship Game)
48 tianyi7886 29-3 10-0 14-2 5-1 16-0 8 5 A Conf Champion
CT Champion
NT (Sweet 16)
47 tianyi7886 20-9 13-2 6-5 1-2 10-6   58 B+ NT At-large Bid
NT (1st Round)
46 tianyi7886 24-8 10-3 9-4 5-1 13-3 22 23 A- CT Champion
NT (Sweet 16)


D2:
54 tianyi7886 31-2 9-0 16-1 6-1 15-1 5 2 A+ Conf Champion
CT Champion
NT (Elite 8)
53 tianyi7886 32-3 11-1 13-1 8-1 15-1 2 2 A+ Conf Champion
CT Champion
NT (Championship Game)
52 tianyi7886 32-2 10-1 15-0 7-1 16-0 4 2 A+ Conf Champion
CT Champion
NT (Final Four)
51 tianyi7886 33-2 10-0 14-2 9-0 15-1 1 1 A+ Conf Champion
CT Champion
National Champion


At the end of the last season, I qualified for half of the Big 6 openings with prestige at C or lower. Real world term, I started coaching at 30 in D3, coaching Nebraska or Seton Hall at 39. 
11/17/2011 3:04 PM
milkamania
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It depends what you are looking for in regards to D1 openings.    In Tark, I just took over Iowa, my 1st Big 6 school.  I had spent 4 seasons at D3 Elmhurt, 2 seasons at D2 St Mary's and 7 seasons at D1 Norfolk St.  So overall 13 seasons to get a Big 6 job.  That's hardly unrealistic, and I'm not even that good a coach, so it can be done faster. 
Plus, having recruited at all 3 levels, there is a HUGE difference between D3 recruiting and D1 recruiting.  Heck, I don't think I'm prepared for it yet and I spent 7 seasons in a D1 school.  So, to go straight from a D3 program to a Big 6 school would probably leave you unprepared to be really successful.
11/17/2011 3:42 PM
uwrjl93
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I wasn't looking for that.  I was hoping after winning a few conference titles and making a few post seasons that an absolutely awful D1 school being coached by a SIM might show some interest.
11/17/2011 9:47 PM
graham1
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AS the perineial lifer who never has back to back NT appearances I would like to see hiring tweaked to count overall wins, or any other criteria than just 2 back to back NT for a BCS job. Actually if we just eliminated the keep looking category I would be fine. It would allow you to move to some interesting jobs but would still protect most of the elite ones. The game gets kind of stale if all are either a "step backwards", keep looking-which you wont get and not qualified.
11/17/2011 10:51 PM
dcfonzie
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I know it's off topic and really picayune, but the term is "in REGARD to", not "in REGARDS to".  That's all.
11/17/2011 11:38 PM
tianyi7886
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Posted by uwrjl93 on 11/17/2011 9:47:00 PM (view original):
I wasn't looking for that.  I was hoping after winning a few conference titles and making a few post seasons that an absolutely awful D1 school being coached by a SIM might show some interest.
You can move to the worst D1 teams after some solid D3 success. The 30 seasons was referring to moving from D3 straight to Bish prestige teams. 
11/18/2011 11:18 AM
uwrjl93
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In the Phelan world I coach UW-Oshkosh.  In 21 seasons I have 19 conference championships, 14 NT bids, 7 PI bids and 2 PI championships.  My biggest issues are not going too deep in the NT and only have 3 conference tourney titles.  That being said, with a lifetime record of 476-161 you would think I could at least get a look from a low end D1 school.  I don't even want to leave that team because it was my first one.  However, I joined other worlds in hopes of moving up and after having some success (not as good as oshkosh, but did take teams that had never been to the postseason to multiple) thought I could get some D1 jobs.  It is discouraging and I am leaning towards not renewing those teams because I am tired of being stuck at a D2 school I don't care much about.
11/18/2011 11:35 AM
bow2dacowz
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Somewhat unrelated and im sure its been discussed before...but why dont coach prestige/loyalty roll over the same time that team prestige does prior to jobs opening?
11/18/2011 12:09 PM
salag
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Posted by tianyi7886 on 11/18/2011 11:18:00 AM (view original):
Posted by uwrjl93 on 11/17/2011 9:47:00 PM (view original):
I wasn't looking for that.  I was hoping after winning a few conference titles and making a few post seasons that an absolutely awful D1 school being coached by a SIM might show some interest.
You can move to the worst D1 teams after some solid D3 success. The 30 seasons was referring to moving from D3 straight to Bish prestige teams. 

So for one of these D1 teams. The D prestiges, or C-, maybe even C? And after how many season would you qualify for those? NT success, PT success? Conf titles? Overall wins?

11/18/2011 12:32 PM
kujayhawk
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Salag - click through my username if you want to see details of my resume.  I just qualified for C level jobs.

Right now there are 9 C level jobs open in D1 Allen.  My D3 team has no shot at one of them, is qualified for four, and is a longshot for the other four.

My resume is good, not great, and I was not qualified for C level jobs until this season.  That probably is mostly because I have back-to-back Final Four appearances.  That, by far, is my best showing; I'm qualified for C level jobs despite zero championships.

Right now I have 32 seasons and 741 wins.  I've made the NT in most seasons and I do have some deep runs but for the most part I've been an early flameout in the NT.  From the ticket I have with customer support, it is the 741 wins that is most important in having me qualified for those jobs.

I just now am qualified for C level jobs but I have been qualified for at least some C- prestige jobs since at least season 25 and maybe going all the way back to season 20.

Depending on the state of the BCS schools, you might be able to jump from D3 to one of them even without a great resume.  Even before my recent bump, I was qualified for three Big East jobs in Allen, but the Big East in Allen is terrible and I suspect I wouldn't have been qualified for those jobs in other worlds.  Right now I'm qualified for C- Mississippi State in the SEC.
11/18/2011 12:47 PM
tianyi7886
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Posted by uwrjl93 on 11/18/2011 11:35:00 AM (view original):
In the Phelan world I coach UW-Oshkosh.  In 21 seasons I have 19 conference championships, 14 NT bids, 7 PI bids and 2 PI championships.  My biggest issues are not going too deep in the NT and only have 3 conference tourney titles.  That being said, with a lifetime record of 476-161 you would think I could at least get a look from a low end D1 school.  I don't even want to leave that team because it was my first one.  However, I joined other worlds in hopes of moving up and after having some success (not as good as oshkosh, but did take teams that had never been to the postseason to multiple) thought I could get some D1 jobs.  It is discouraging and I am leaning towards not renewing those teams because I am tired of being stuck at a D2 school I don't care much about.
Your D3 resume isn't strong enough to put you into D1. Those PIs doesn't mean much, neither does 1 or 2nd round knockouts in the NT. You need some Final 4s. I jumped straight from D1 to a C prestige team in Phelan. 

If you want to move to D1, best way is to move to D2 right away, make a few NTs in D2, and you can move up to D1. 
11/18/2011 1:15 PM
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