End of Game Logic Topic

Can something be done about the last shot logic. It doesn't seem to make much sense when a player takes the final shot with alot of time on the clock, when the shot clock is off. Look at the following:

00:39   63-62 Arthur Dowling snags the defensive board
00:20   63-62 Joe Malbrough is hacked by Raymond Hall - foul #3 on Raymond Hall, team foul #10
00:20   63-63 Joe Malbrough makes the 1st free throw
00:20   63-64 Joe Malbrough makes the 2nd free throw
00:15 Raymond Hall misses the shot from the right wing 63-64  
00:13 Mark Baskett misses the tip 63-64  
00:11 The offensive rebound goes to Mark Baskett 63-64  
00:07 Raymond Hall hits a jumpshot from the free throw line on a great pass from Jeff Heiberger 65-64  
00:07   65-64 Beloit calls a :30 timeout (1 :30 3 full remaining)
00:01   65-66 Arthur Dowling connects on the pull-up jumper from the left wing
  McMurry is playing a quick shot offense (quick shot) and a 2-3 zone (-2)   Beloit is playing a fastbreak offense (uptempo) and a fullcourt press (+2)
00:00 Raymond Hall misses the fullcourt shot 65-66
 


Why would anyone take the jumpshot with so much time left on the clock? Real life basketball would have the player start his dribbling penetration from around 5 seconds, to get a shot off around the 2-3 second mark, or dish it out for a buzzer beater. 
12/14/2011 10:28 AM (edited)
What's the offensive IQ of the player taking the quick shot?  I lived through the Bad Boy Era and saw Rodman take more than his fair share of stupid shots like that.
12/14/2011 9:51 AM
RS JR, with A IQ in motion. 
12/14/2011 9:55 AM
I have actually seen this kind of stuff happen quite a bit, but this is my first time posting it because it happened in the E8 in Wooden. 
12/14/2011 9:55 AM
I disagree with the premise.  15 seconds may be a little early but you would like the shot to be taken with enough time left on the clock for a possible put back, just like what happened.  Its not the NBA so the ball does not advance on a time out so they are left with a heave.
12/14/2011 10:06 AM
15seconds isn't the early part.  7 seconds is the early part. Idk any basketball coach would take the shot early in case they miss so they can get a putback. 

Edit: actually looking at it again, 15 is early as well. The other team made their ft with 20 seconds remaining, so my team pushed the ball up the court and took the shot asap. That makes no sense.
12/14/2011 10:16 AM (edited)
I totally disagree.  This happens all the time in real life.  Down 1, you want to give yourself a chance for an offensive rebound or to foul and hit a three (or two if they missed one or both of the FTs). 

If it's tied, you wait.  Down, many people believe you have to give yourself a chance if you miss.  I'm not saying it's the only way teams approach it, but it's certainly common that a team will shoot with 5-7 seconds left.
12/14/2011 10:15 AM
how about seble put in an option for last shot? there's no way I would let my team take the last shot with so much time remaining. 
12/14/2011 10:18 AM
And honestly, if you would have taken it with no time left and missed, I could have seen someone questioning the end of  game logic for not giving yourself a chance.

Let's just work through this.

Take the shot with :05-:07 left.  Best case: make the shot and he has to hit a buzzer beater to win.  Worst case: time still on the clock for you to hit a three after he hits both FTs.

Take the shot with :01 left.  Best case: you win.  Worst case: you lose.

It's a risk/reward thing.  I can see why some coaches want the shot taken with no time left, but I just don't think that's the general approach.
12/14/2011 10:18 AM
Posted by tianyi7886 on 12/14/2011 10:18:00 AM (view original):
how about seble put in an option for last shot? there's no way I would let my team take the last shot with so much time remaining. 
I think that's a fair request.  It would be great to control those types of things.
12/14/2011 10:19 AM
By the way, I was rooting for you.  I think they would have been playing our game on ESPN Nueve Classic for years.  My guard def vs,. your guard scoring would have been awesome.
12/14/2011 10:28 AM
I'd like us to be able to add an option for hold ball as oppsoed to being automatic at 1:00.  A lot of times coaches do that at 2 or 3 minutes.  Slowdown helps do that but for the FB teams it doesn't.  I'd like an option to milk a 5 point lead with two or three minutes...some may choose not to, but at least that's what I'd like to have an option for.  Tianyi, tough loss.  I personally thought the 5 second posession was more strange than the shot being taken at :15 or :07. 
12/14/2011 10:34 AM
Posted by Rails on 12/14/2011 10:34:00 AM (view original):
I'd like us to be able to add an option for hold ball as oppsoed to being automatic at 1:00.  A lot of times coaches do that at 2 or 3 minutes.  Slowdown helps do that but for the FB teams it doesn't.  I'd like an option to milk a 5 point lead with two or three minutes...some may choose not to, but at least that's what I'd like to have an option for.  Tianyi, tough loss.  I personally thought the 5 second posession was more strange than the shot being taken at :15 or :07. 
The 5 second possession was also strange, which I realized after rereading the pbp. I thought the :15 shot was because shot clock was winding down, which wasn't the case.

My team inbounded the ball at :20, run down the court and just chucked a shot up...
12/14/2011 10:39 AM
Posted by tianyi7886 on 12/14/2011 10:16:00 AM (view original):
15seconds isn't the early part.  7 seconds is the early part. Idk any basketball coach would take the shot early in case they miss so they can get a putback. 

Edit: actually looking at it again, 15 is early as well. The other team made their ft with 20 seconds remaining, so my team pushed the ball up the court and took the shot asap. That makes no sense.
Coaches do that all the time.  Announcer talk about it all the time.  How many times do you hear them say "He needs to initiate the offense with about 15 on the clock so they can get a shot off with around 5 seconds left."  Its the same reason teams kick field goals on 3rd down in football.
12/14/2011 10:40 AM
There's a thousand extra options we can ask to be put into the game, it's not realistic to micromanage every single second of every possession.  What if the guy at 7 seconds was wide open with no one around him.  Is he supposed to pull back and pass off so a guard can rush a bad shot 4 seconds later just so you don't give up an extra possession??    It's not uncommon at all for an offense to start the last possession around 10 seconds so there is a chance for a tip, rebound, foul is there is a miss, etc.  Maybe the guard drove at 10 seconds, saw an open man, dished and he hit the shot.  You should be screaming at the defense for giving up a game winner on the other end.
BTW I was actually going to agree with you until you said 7 seconds was the early part.  I'd have a bigger issue with the guy taking the shot at 15 seconds, but as you see, it did give you the extra opportunity.  If the shot at 7 seconds was missed and then there was an offensive rebound or tip and you won at the buzzer, I'm sure you'd have been OK with what happened.
12/14/2011 10:43 AM
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