Job success changes Topic

Wow. Simply wow.
12/20/2011 2:14 PM
Posted by seble on 12/20/2011 1:25:00 PM (view original):
The fix yesterday only applied to job status, not moving between jobs.  I haven't settled on a date for a change to the job movement process.  Any change would immediately impact all worlds, so I don't want to do that in the middle of the job period for any worlds.

I understand that even lowering school requirements won't make the new system perfect.  Ideally the logic would be smart enough to recognize rebuilding situations and other considerations, so there may be a further update down the road related to that.  But I still believe that once the school requirements are adjusted, the new logic in place now is better than the old system. 
No need to be careful here.

The new jobs system is incredibly broken. The sooner you can possibly get a fix in, the better.
12/20/2011 3:22 PM
In all honesty, I thought the old way was fine. A minor improvement would have been OK with me, but I just think that the new system is way to hard.  But I will reserve judgement until my Delta State team comes up in Smith. last year I was a longshot for Penn State, and I really want that job, and should have another solid year behind me. I would be really disappointed if I don't qualify for some good schools. In my opinion, maybe 10 years is too long. maybe it should be like 6 years or something like that. That might solve a lot of the problems, but still make a change in the right direction.

12/20/2011 5:53 PM
seems like this change wasn't very well thought out.  In Phelan there is an MWC coach who was in the NT 8 times in 10 years, 2 Sweet 16, 1 Elite 8, top 15 ranking the last 2 seasons.  In real life, such a coach would be sought after for every top job that became available.  Says he isn't even qualified for some decent Big Ten and SEC jobs.  Is the requirement for a top job now simply that you need to go to 10 straight NTs?  If it is, that is a borderline brain dead attempt at making the system better.  
12/20/2011 8:08 PM
From what I understand of Seble's responses, the issue seems to be that he never updated the school's hiring requirements when he adjusted the timeframe of a coach's history being used to evaluate his resume.  I think someone gave an example either earlier in this thread or maybe another of a school like texas requiring consistent sweet 16 success on average to qualify.  Under the old logic, a final four, a 2nd round and 2 1st round losses in the NT in the last 4 yrs might qualify you.  Now you need 10 years of averaging a sweet 16, much much more difficult.  Hopefully this isn't a major change to the logic and is something that can be implemented quickly. 

I do agree that it would be good customer service and good PR to give anyone who got screwed out of a job they really wanted by the correction a free season.  If that happened, I think we all would be OK with the situation.
12/20/2011 8:41 PM
Posted by chapelhillne on 12/20/2011 5:53:00 PM (view original):
In all honesty, I thought the old way was fine. A minor improvement would have been OK with me, but I just think that the new system is way to hard.  But I will reserve judgement until my Delta State team comes up in Smith. last year I was a longshot for Penn State, and I really want that job, and should have another solid year behind me. I would be really disappointed if I don't qualify for some good schools. In my opinion, maybe 10 years is too long. maybe it should be like 6 years or something like that. That might solve a lot of the problems, but still make a change in the right direction.

The problem isn't that they went to 10 years. The problem is that they royally screwed up the formula. With this formula, pretty much everyone has taken a step back. It's not just guy who had a couple bad seasons seven or eight years ago.
12/20/2011 9:32 PM
All I know is that I am not qualified for A prestige Alabama in rupp (I am at Tenn, which is also A). That seems laughable to me. In reali life, they would certainly at a minimum have me as a long shot, and I would think a real candidate. Something is definitely amiss. This is AFTER the 19th change.
12/21/2011 7:44 AM
This is not an extreme example, but still worthy of note. I have had 6 seasons in HD with a 138-48 record.
The first 4 seasons were at D1 Nazareth where I won a National Championship. The last 2 years I have been at St. Mary's, where I have made the NT both years and have a 42-19 record. I have made the NT 4 years in a row. I have been Conference Coach of the year 3 times, and National Coach of the year at D3 once. I am not qualified for any D1 schools. I think that some weight should be given to winning a National Championship at any level, because in real life, I could definitely see a D1 school wanting to give a chance to a coach with a resume like this, especially a lower level D1 school.
12/21/2011 8:33 AM
I know it's not going to change anything but I'm pretty annoyed that I can't get a job in a better conference after bringing my lower level D1 school to back to back NT's.  It's the perfect time for me to make a move because next year will be a rebuilding year because I am losing 6 seniors going into the upcoming season.  Next year I know my record will not be as good and it's going to hurt my chances to move and effectivley not allow me to leave until I make another NT run.  For the record I am trying to get into a better conference but the teams I am looking to take over have been terrible for a long time.  Guess they would rather have a SIM run the team into the ground.
12/21/2011 9:00 AM
Posted by jpmills3 on 12/21/2011 7:46:00 AM (view original):
All I know is that I am not qualified for A prestige Alabama in rupp (I am at Tenn, which is also A). That seems laughable to me. In reali life, they would certainly at a minimum have me as a long shot, and I would think a real candidate. Something is definitely amiss. This is AFTER the 19th change.
jp, the 12/19 change was only to fix a separate glitch with job status -- it didn't fix the big problem, i.e. what jobs someone is qualified for.

In C-USA, oldwarrior/iguana and acn have gone to the last several NT's and bumped their prestiges all the way to B. They are listed as Keep Looking for C+ Houston, clearly below them in the same conference.

This is totally FUBAR.
12/21/2011 9:05 AM

I keep trying to understand what WIS is thinking. Maybe it's something like, "Our customers asked for this, and we think it's basically right, and so we're going to maintain course. We believe there's a silent majority who like these changes, and once we tweak the new system, even most of those who hate it currently will like it."

But what WIS may not realize is they should be thinking something much closer to, "We have stopped almost all job mobility, effectively pulling the rug out from under many coaches who'd painstakingly planned to move this season, and now they're stuck for the foreseeable future, and we're going to lose many, many customers over this. Whatever code we think is working is simply not working the way many of our customers want, so we're going to scrap it, go back to the original, give season credits to disgruntled coaches, work on something that will work, then test the heck out of it and get lots of pertinent customer feedback, before releasing. If we don't scrap this bad system, it's going to hurt our HD bottom line significantly."

As a businessman myself, I just can't understand the seemingly obstinate committment to the attitude in the 1st paragraph instead of the 2nd. This is actually going to cost WIS revenue, which I'd otherwise assume is their first priority. But it would somehow seem not to be in this case. So very odd.

12/21/2011 11:16 AM
I agree. I had planned to advance to Division 1 with several teams. Now, I am planning on dropping at least one team, and more in the future if the situation does not change. It's a real shame, because the new release was so good with this one exception, but this far outweighs the improvements that were made. I really like this game and hate to see what is happening here.
12/21/2011 2:43 PM (edited)
Had a top coach ready to join our conference this season.

Last season he was qualified for B- jobs or worse and a longshot for low end Big 6 jobs.

With another F4 appearance under his belt, he is now not qualified for the C and C+ openings in our conference (C-USA).

F'in ridiculous.
12/21/2011 2:49 PM
Posted by seble on 12/20/2011 1:25:00 PM (view original):
The fix yesterday only applied to job status, not moving between jobs.  I haven't settled on a date for a change to the job movement process.  Any change would immediately impact all worlds, so I don't want to do that in the middle of the job period for any worlds.

I understand that even lowering school requirements won't make the new system perfect.  Ideally the logic would be smart enough to recognize rebuilding situations and other considerations, so there may be a further update down the road related to that.  But I still believe that once the school requirements are adjusted, the new logic in place now is better than the old system. 
I think if you would announce a date that it will be ready, this would make a big difference in how people feel right now.
12/21/2011 4:21 PM
seble, I hope you realize the seriousness of this job process problem and get it fixed ASAP. It is currently very flawed and I don't want to see HD losing coaches over something that can be easily fixed. If you have to, go back to the old logic until you can repair the new logic that is looking at more history, PLEASE!
12/21/2011 4:44 PM
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