Posted by rednation58 on 1/15/2012 7:25:00 PM (view original):
Why does a reason need to be stated when you can look at past threads and find many suggestions and many issues paying customers have brought up and nothing has been done to fix any of them. I have seen many productive threads that have accomplished nada.. So if this dude wants to post a thread against not liking on fb because the game is f'd up, who are you to say he needs points stated and blah blah blah. They are already stated! Let him live with his right to speak freely man!!

Saying nothing has been done to fix the problems is complete BS. There have been updates to the NT selection process, and job process, as long as some aesthetic stuff that adds a bit to the game. Has everything been addressed, no, but has enough effort been done over the last few weeks to have faith that more will be done? Absolutely.

 

Posted by dapperduck on 1/15/2012 7:32:00 PM (view original):
That's your argument, rednation? seriously, I don't buy that at all. Why was there a need for this thread if he's not doing anything but saying he won't like it on facebook? this is incredibly unproductive and stupid. At least make an arguement for WHY there is a need for change. Yep, there needs to be change. So? So, he won't like it on facebook. Well whoopdy doo, lets halt everything because this one guy doesn't want to take 3 seconds out of his day to click one button that could conceivably help improve the game.

thanks for the post.

Posted by kmasonbx on 1/15/2012 8:38:00 PM (view original):

Posted by rednation58 on 1/15/2012 7:25:00 PM (view original):
Why does a reason need to be stated when you can look at past threads and find many suggestions and many issues paying customers have brought up and nothing has been done to fix any of them. I have seen many productive threads that have accomplished nada.. So if this dude wants to post a thread against not liking on fb because the game is f'd up, who are you to say he needs points stated and blah blah blah. They are already stated! Let him live with his right to speak freely man!!

Saying nothing has been done to fix the problems is complete BS. There have been updates to the NT selection process, and job process, as long as some aesthetic stuff that adds a bit to the game. Has everything been addressed, no, but has enough effort been done over the last few weeks to have faith that more will be done? Absolutely.

 

Posted by rednation58 on 1/15/2012 8:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dapperduck on 1/15/2012 7:32:00 PM (view original):
That's your argument, rednation? seriously, I don't buy that at all. Why was there a need for this thread if he's not doing anything but saying he won't like it on facebook? this is incredibly unproductive and stupid. At least make an arguement for WHY there is a need for change. Yep, there needs to be change. So? So, he won't like it on facebook. Well whoopdy doo, lets halt everything because this one guy doesn't want to take 3 seconds out of his day to click one button that could conceivably help improve the game.

thanks for the post.

Dapper if he wants seble to know he won't like this on fb it's his business. Who are you to tell him or anybody else for that matter that he's wasting time or being unproductive? The point I'm sure was that after all the threads about issues Wis has the time to ask Customers to like them on fb but rarely very rarely do anything or bother to post on our issues. In my opinion this is more about the principle.

Thanks for your post.

Posted by rednation58 on 1/15/2012 8:46:00 PM (view original):

Posted by kmasonbx on 1/15/2012 8:38:00 PM (view original):

Posted by rednation58 on 1/15/2012 7:25:00 PM (view original):
Why does a reason need to be stated when you can look at past threads and find many suggestions and many issues paying customers have brought up and nothing has been done to fix any of them. I have seen many productive threads that have accomplished nada.. So if this dude wants to post a thread against not liking on fb because the game is f'd up, who are you to say he needs points stated and blah blah blah. They are already stated! Let him live with his right to speak freely man!!

Saying nothing has been done to fix the problems is complete BS. There have been updates to the NT selection process, and job process, as long as some aesthetic stuff that adds a bit to the game. Has everything been addressed, no, but has enough effort been done over the last few weeks to have faith that more will be done? Absolutely.

 

Well said kmason but if this is posted before the release you and everyone keep talking about, when was the last thing done? I have only been here 7 months but within that time THAT IS THE ONLY THING THAT HAS BEEN DONE. For atleast 6 months of my time here I can say that nothing was done. How long did it take to get that accomplished? If you're satisfied with that then that's you but people want more.

Posted by caesari on 1/15/2012 2:42:00 PM (view original):
Let me make my stance clear: he has a right to complain. But to complain by simply saying "this sucks" is not presenting a point, it's saying "this sucks." billy, there are definitely things that need fixing, but when you come on here and all you say is "f*ck this, I'm not liking this stupid Facebook link" is not improving anything. Heck, it might be making it worse. WIS is screwed up, and they'd rather attract new customers and THEN improve the product instead of improve the product and THEN attract customers. You do it the first way, you are treading water, cuz if the product sucks, people don't stick around.

If we could get seble to make a better product, it would sell itself with less effort. So instead of complaining, we should do something productive, like offering suggestions. Complaints won't get us anywhere, unless there is a solution alongside it.

Posted by coach_billyg on 1/15/2012 9:32:00 PM (view original):

Posted by caesari on 1/15/2012 2:42:00 PM (view original):
Let me make my stance clear: he has a right to complain. But to complain by simply saying "this sucks" is not presenting a point, it's saying "this sucks." billy, there are definitely things that need fixing, but when you come on here and all you say is "f*ck this, I'm not liking this stupid Facebook link" is not improving anything. Heck, it might be making it worse. WIS is screwed up, and they'd rather attract new customers and THEN improve the product instead of improve the product and THEN attract customers. You do it the first way, you are treading water, cuz if the product sucks, people don't stick around.

If we could get seble to make a better product, it would sell itself with less effort. So instead of complaining, we should do something productive, like offering suggestions. Complaints won't get us anywhere, unless there is a solution alongside it.

caseari, i respectfully disagree. i understand what you are saying, but frankly, i think you are wrong on an important note - that there is no point.

let me try to draw a parallel here. often, particularly in politics, people have the opportunity to vote "yes" or "no" for something. on a council, a person may be absent, and their vote does not count. or, somebody may be present, and is often allowed to abstain. do people abstain because they truly have no preference whatsoever on an issue? maybe sometimes, but not normally. normally it is a form of mild protest.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstention

so anyway... i am pretty sure jbas is making a point here. he is not so upset as to quit the game, or to fight against it. however, he is being asked by site staff to help them, and he doesn't feel they are filling their end of the bargain, to help him. its not that jbas wants this game to fail or not have new members. its that to get his explicit approval, the staff needs to earn it. i think it is perfectly fair and that there is also value is such actions. if he got 21 pages of +1s, don't you think the staff would go... damn, we better talk to these people, engage them, and try to earn their support? well, maybe not - but if not, it sort of proves the point, doesn't it?

Posted by kmasonbx on 1/15/2012 9:26:00 PM (view original):

Posted by rednation58 on 1/15/2012 8:46:00 PM (view original):

Posted by kmasonbx on 1/15/2012 8:38:00 PM (view original):

Posted by rednation58 on 1/15/2012 7:25:00 PM (view original):
Why does a reason need to be stated when you can look at past threads and find many suggestions and many issues paying customers have brought up and nothing has been done to fix any of them. I have seen many productive threads that have accomplished nada.. So if this dude wants to post a thread against not liking on fb because the game is f'd up, who are you to say he needs points stated and blah blah blah. They are already stated! Let him live with his right to speak freely man!!

Saying nothing has been done to fix the problems is complete BS. There have been updates to the NT selection process, and job process, as long as some aesthetic stuff that adds a bit to the game. Has everything been addressed, no, but has enough effort been done over the last few weeks to have faith that more will be done? Absolutely.

 

Well said kmason but if this is posted before the release you and everyone keep talking about, when was the last thing done? I have only been here 7 months but within that time THAT IS THE ONLY THING THAT HAS BEEN DONE. For atleast 6 months of my time here I can say that nothing was done. How long did it take to get that accomplished? If you're satisfied with that then that's you but people want more.

Seble stated why nothing had been done for a long time. Fox Sports, who owns WIS, forced the HD staff to focus on Fox Sports products for a long period of time, which left them unable to tend to HD. Since Fox pays the bills they make the decisions.

Posted by coach_billyg on 1/15/2012 9:32:00 PM (view original):

Posted by caesari on 1/15/2012 2:42:00 PM (view original):
Let me make my stance clear: he has a right to complain. But to complain by simply saying "this sucks" is not presenting a point, it's saying "this sucks." billy, there are definitely things that need fixing, but when you come on here and all you say is "f*ck this, I'm not liking this stupid Facebook link" is not improving anything. Heck, it might be making it worse. WIS is screwed up, and they'd rather attract new customers and THEN improve the product instead of improve the product and THEN attract customers. You do it the first way, you are treading water, cuz if the product sucks, people don't stick around.

If we could get seble to make a better product, it would sell itself with less effort. So instead of complaining, we should do something productive, like offering suggestions. Complaints won't get us anywhere, unless there is a solution alongside it.

caseari, i respectfully disagree. i understand what you are saying, but frankly, i think you are wrong on an important note - that there is no point.

let me try to draw a parallel here. often, particularly in politics, people have the opportunity to vote "yes" or "no" for something. on a council, a person may be absent, and their vote does not count. or, somebody may be present, and is often allowed to abstain. do people abstain because they truly have no preference whatsoever on an issue? maybe sometimes, but not normally. normally it is a form of mild protest.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstention

so anyway... i am pretty sure jbas is making a point here. he is not so upset as to quit the game, or to fight against it. however, he is being asked by site staff to help them, and he doesn't feel they are filling their end of the bargain, to help him. its not that jbas wants this game to fail or not have new members. its that to get his explicit approval, the staff needs to earn it. i think it is perfectly fair and that there is also value is such actions. if he got 21 pages of +1s, don't you think the staff would go... damn, we better talk to these people, engage them, and try to earn their support? well, maybe not - but if not, it sort of proves the point, doesn't it?

Posted by jbasnight on 1/16/2012 10:07:00 AM (view original):
Wow, haven't checked back since I posted this--I didn't expect all this controversy!

My post was a couple years' worth of frustration with this game boiling over. Reinsel is correct about the catalyst, and gil is correct about my general feeling: Asking us to pay for a product that WIS has admitted has major flaws is bad enough, but to then ask us to help recruit new users for their bottom line? I find that unacceptable.

I've been playing this game for 3+ years, and I used to tremendously enjoy it. But over the past couple of years I've watched change after change to the engine take strategy out of the coaches' hands and make the game a lot less fun to play. The recruit generation nonsense is the latest example, though to me it's the most blatant: A change no one was asking for, which a number of veteran coaches (including several who have posted here) immediately told seble would be bad for the game--including specifically how and why--only to see it implemented anyway and damage D1 in exactly the manner they said it would. More than a year later, no change has been made to fix this mess.

Show me some genuine effort to fix things? I'll be a huge HD booster. Ask me to bring people into a flawed product without showing more effort on your end? No thanks.