a. I probably shouldn't have used 8 HV but I wasn't convinced of lack of diminishing marginal utility and that the 46 CV would have been more valuable than a 7th and 8th HV. Anybody have proof that this is the case?

b. I overrated my B+ prestige and the 50-60% advantage I had was more like 30-40%

c. I was totally qualified for the Tennessee job. When I took the reigns,  it was a low-level BCS school in Tark and in shambles (B- prestige and falling). I had a 140-35 overall record (80% win rate) at Brown. In the real world, there are plenty of coaches at low-level BCS schools who came from successful low-level D1 schools without winning games in the Dance. 
                              
 

From SEC.... In the real word, Ole Miss, Miss State, and Auburn... all hired coaches who hadn't won a game in the dance. 

Posted by jck45 on 4/30/2012 8:51:00 PM (view original):
From SEC.... In the real word, Ole Miss, Miss State, and Auburn... all hired coaches who hadn't won a game in the dance. 

Pushing around sims and weak sisters in a lower level HD conference is easy. Racking up 20+ wins and making the postseason just isn't that hard at that level of competition. It's nothing compared to real life.

The real-life SEC comparison holds even less water. In real life, guys often earn their stripes as top assistants. There's nothing like that here. Andy Kennedy is a Mississippi boy who got the Ole Miss job after being a top asst at Cincy and UAB. Rick Ray (Miss State) was an asst at Purdue and Clemson. Neither had been a coach before. Barbee (Auburn) was a head coach for four seasons and took UTEP to the tourney.

On the other hand, you'd been a head coach for 30 seasons and won just a single NT game (1-7). So to make the comparison from above is totally disingenuous on several levels. I'm happy for you that you got the UT job and hope you do well there. But that's different than saying that you deserved it.

Posted by jck45 on 4/30/2012 8:36:00 PM (view original):
a. I probably shouldn't have used 8 HV but I wasn't convinced of lack of diminishing marginal utility and that the 46 CV would have been more valuable than a 7th and 8th HV. Anybody have proof that this is the case?

b. I overrated my B+ prestige and the 50-60% advantage I had was more like 30-40%

c. I was totally qualified for the Tennessee job. When I took the reigns,  it was a low-level BCS school in Tark and in shambles (B- prestige and falling). I had a 140-35 overall record (80% win rate) at Brown. In the real world, there are plenty of coaches at low-level BCS schools who came from successful low-level D1 schools without winning games in the Dance. 
                              
 

There is no diminishing returns. 

Posted by girt25 on 4/30/2012 10:20:00 PM (view original):

Posted by jck45 on 4/30/2012 8:51:00 PM (view original):
From SEC.... In the real word, Ole Miss, Miss State, and Auburn... all hired coaches who hadn't won a game in the dance. 

Pushing around sims and weak sisters in a lower level HD conference is easy. Racking up 20+ wins and making the postseason just isn't that hard at that level of competition. It's nothing compared to real life.

The real-life SEC comparison holds even less water. In real life, guys often earn their stripes as top assistants. There's nothing like that here. Andy Kennedy is a Mississippi boy who got the Ole Miss job after being a top asst at Cincy and UAB. Rick Ray (Miss State) was an asst at Purdue and Clemson. Neither had been a coach before. Barbee (Auburn) was a head coach for four seasons and took UTEP to the tourney.

On the other hand, you'd been a head coach for 30 seasons and won just a single NT game (1-7). So to make the comparison from above is totally disingenuous on several levels. I'm happy for you that you got the UT job and hope you do well there. But that's different than saying that you deserved it.

Barbee took his UTEP team to the tournement but never won... just like I took my Brown team to the tournament and didnt win.

WHATS THE DIFFERENCE??

The huge difference is that you had 30 seasons and won just a single game while going 1-7. Thirty. Three-Zero. That's mind boggling.
The other difference is that it's much, much easier to make the NT in HD, particularly from a lesser DI conference.

(And of course not even acknowledging your attempted bit of trickery with the other two coaches you tried to name ...)

I played 7 seasons at D2+D3 (0-1 in d2 NT, never played a d3 NT game)

I then played 16 at Bucknell where I went to the NT twice going 1-1. I could have jumped, but Bucknell is my real world alma mater so I stayed. 

I then took a longggggggg hiatus from this game but decided to come back and  took over Brown where I coached 7 seasons building a great program with a .800 overall record, conference titles, CT titles, COY. I went 0-2 in the NT.  Pretty sure real world success in the IVY league isnt defined by wins in the dance. 

SO when I applied for the job at Tennesse, I was NOT 1-7 in 30 seasons, as you so pompously claim, but rather 1-3 at low level D1 schools (1-4 if you want to count d2, but why?)

You clearly over-value NT wins in both the real world and this game.

No trickery in trying to name real world coaches who hadnt gone the rout of winning games in the dance before becoming BCS coaches.  People take different routes to get where they are, and not all involve tournament wins.

Does Barbee at Auburn not deserve is job at Auburn? He only coached 4 seasons at Utep and never won there in the dance.... yes he does. So do I. 

If you have a problem with other coaches being passed over, thats one thing, but dont say I dont deserve my current job for only going 1-3 in the NT as an IVY league coach. 

By the way, consider John Thompson II real world resume prior to becoming the head coach at Georgetown. 

4 seasons coaching Princeton, two tournament appearance, 1 NIT appearances, 0 postseason wins.

John Thompson's father also coached at Georgetown for a couple of seasons, so that may have played a factor in him getting the job.

Just a teeny tiny factor, lol. But jck likes to conveniently sweep things like that under the rug ... like saying, "look, these guys never won a NT game as a real life head coach either!", when the reality is that they hadn't been head coaches but rather long-time assistants. Just very disingenuous.

But the reality is that you can't compare the two for all the reasons outline above -- real life assistants routinely get promoted to head jobs; it's much, much easier to dominate a non-BCS conference in HD, etc.

jck, you may think that I (and the other coaches who pointed this out) overvalue winning in the NT. You'd simply be wrong. That's what HD is based off of when it comes to everything -- prestige, resume, postseason money, even rewards points. Making the postseason in HD is ridiuclously easy. 

You can spin it any way you like, but you coached in that world for 30 seasons and won a grand total of one NT game.

You're way out of line.

1-7 when i applied for the ten job is a flat out lie you're making.

You over value nt wins (in real life and in this game).

I took tenn as b-, it dropped to C+ next year (not my fault) brought tenn up from that c+ prestige to a b+ without ever having won a NT game!

Don't hate the player, hate the game....

I was 1-8 in the NT at Princeton before I got the Rutgers job.

Was I qualified girt?

Where is the line  drawn?

I think it's a,little ridiculous to say someone does not deserve a BCS job simply because of few NT wins, especially now when winning any NT games as a non-BCS school is as difficult as ever. If you can build a lousy program into a decent one you deserve a shot at a lower BCS school. The B- Tennessee might have been a bit high though.

I got my first BCS job, C prestige Iowa St. with zero NT wins. In 5 years I made the NT, in 9 the Final Four, and in 13 I won a title. Take that for what you will. Just goes to show that wins in the NT are not the only barometer of success.

i got my first BCS job, c+ colorado, without any NT wins. had 4 1st round appearances in my 4 seasons in d1, and 2 of those were like 100 rpi CT wins. after 3 seasons at colorado, 7th d1 season overall, i got my first NT win and d1 NT title. so, i am with jck and slicknick. nothing wrong with getting a rebuilder big 6 program without NT wins, it doesn't mean you aren't ready.

Posted by jck45 on 5/1/2012 12:04:00 PM (view original):
You're way out of line.

1-7 when i applied for the ten job is a flat out lie you're making.

You over value nt wins (in real life and in this game).

I took tenn as b-, it dropped to C+ next year (not my fault) brought tenn up from that c+ prestige to a b+ without ever having won a NT game!

Don't hate the player, hate the game....

I'm not hating the player. If you'll look back, I specifically said I wish you all the best and hope you do well, but didn't think that someone with your track record should get a BCS job. Nothing against you whatsoever, It is the game.

What is personal is that your arguments have been very disingenuous.

Telling me I'm flat out lying by saying 1-7 ... my point was that you had won one NT game in 30 seasons. Sorry that myself and others overlooked that you were actually 1-5 at the time. That changes nothing.

The repeated lack of honesty and forthrightness in your arguments is actually starting to turn me against you rather than the game ...