Michael Inman plays on a dominant 16-0 (19-0 including conference tournament) team, averages 11.1 RPG, 2.5 BPG, 0.7 SPG.

Thomas Lord plays on a 14-2 (16-3) team, averages 5.9 RPG, 1.4 BPG, 1.1 SPG.

Lord wins conference DPOY. If he were a SF or maybe even a PF, I would agree, but his rebounding average puts him at 19th in the conference as a STARTING CENTER. Inman's rebounding puts him at number one in the conference, and his 2.5 BPG are also tops. The difference in steals is 0.4, but seeing that Lord isn't even in the conference's top 25, steals shouldn't be much of a factor.

I understand that Lord has better ATH and DEF ratings, but are awards in real life based on a player's ability? No! They're based on the player's output and impact on the game, and Inman is clearly superior based on numbers. Even so, the difference in DEF is 22 in Lord's favor, whereas the difference in SB is 35 in Inman's favor, which is a big deal at the center position.

I also understand that awards are just window dressing, no big deal, but I think my player got deprived of some more hardware.

Yeah, but those stats don't tell you how good the players were defensively (deflections, aletered shots, overall lockdownness).  Obviously there's no way to know those things in HD, unlike in real life, which is why I think def ratings probably are factored in (I don't know that to be true, but it seems like it).

It's the spg. Steals carry huge value in conf dpoy and national dpoy.

Posted by tianyi7886 on 5/1/2012 5:36:00 PM (view original):
It's the spg. Steals carry huge value in conf dpoy and national dpoy.

I find that to be dumb when it's handed out to a center. Seems pretty obvious to me that the vast rebounding difference is much more important than a 0.4 difference in SPG at the 5-spot.

Why does rebounding matter so much in dpoy? It has generally gone to bigs in the NBA due to blks, not rebound. This engine simply decides to like stls more and tend to give it to guards more often (think ron artest) but once in a while, a big with good stls/game and decent blks gets it too.

As you said, it doesn't really affect your players so it doesn't matter.

For D1, this system is actually good. D1 EEs are already big biased. Making blks the predominant factor in dpoy will add more hardware to bigs, leading to even more bigs going early and fewer guards leaving. 

Posted by tianyi7886 on 5/1/2012 5:49:00 PM (view original):
Why does rebounding matter so much in dpoy? It has generally gone to bigs in the NBA due to blks, not rebound. This engine simply decides to like stls more and tend to give it to guards more often (think ron artest) but once in a while, a big with good stls/game and decent blks gets it too.

As you said, it doesn't really affect your players so it doesn't matter.

For D1, this system is actually good. D1 EEs are already big biased. Making blks the predominant factor in dpoy will add more hardware to bigs, leading to even more bigs going early and fewer guards leaving. 

I'm gonna disagree with you here.
"Why does rebounding matter so much in dopy?" If the other team takes a shot and misses it, the only way you're getting off the defensive end is by grabbing that board... I think the vast majority of people here would agree that rebounding is extremely significant for the DPOY, if he's a big man, of course. I wouldn't be upset if a guard won it with low rebounding numbers, then it wouldn't matter; but if a center gets the award, seems to me that it should be based on rebounds and blocks, mainly.

You said that "It has generally gone to bigs in the NBA due to blks, not rebound." which would help Inman's case because he averaged 2.5 BPG in conference play, 1.1 more than Lord. But rebounding is clearly a huge factor in the NBA DPOY... since 1997, only one non-big has won the award (Ron Artest, who is far from a guard at 6'7", 260), and discounting him, the lowest rebounding average was 9.2 by Kevin Garnett in 2008 (in reduced minutes). In 2000, Alonzo Mourning averaged 9.5 RPG, so other than KG and 'Zo, everyone has had double-figure rebounding numbers.

I think you are confounding some variables. All of the players you mentioned also pretty much led the league in blks, or in KG's case, top 10 in blks and steals. Pretty much every big man that lead the league in blks is also up there in reb, while the opposite is not true (think Kevin Love).

And as I said before, the simengine values steals more than blks in dpoy, which is why you see alot of guards winning dpoy over centers. I'm just telling you how the engine evaluates dpoy, if you have a problem with it, sitemail CS/seble.

Posted by backboy13 on 5/1/2012 6:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tianyi7886 on 5/1/2012 5:49:00 PM (view original):
Why does rebounding matter so much in dpoy? It has generally gone to bigs in the NBA due to blks, not rebound. This engine simply decides to like stls more and tend to give it to guards more often (think ron artest) but once in a while, a big with good stls/game and decent blks gets it too.

As you said, it doesn't really affect your players so it doesn't matter.

For D1, this system is actually good. D1 EEs are already big biased. Making blks the predominant factor in dpoy will add more hardware to bigs, leading to even more bigs going early and fewer guards leaving. 

I'm gonna disagree with you here.
"Why does rebounding matter so much in dopy?" If the other team takes a shot and misses it, the only way you're getting off the defensive end is by grabbing that board... I think the vast majority of people here would agree that rebounding is extremely significant for the DPOY, if he's a big man, of course. I wouldn't be upset if a guard won it with low rebounding numbers, then it wouldn't matter; but if a center gets the award, seems to me that it should be based on rebounds and blocks, mainly.

You said that "It has generally gone to bigs in the NBA due to blks, not rebound." which would help Inman's case because he averaged 2.5 BPG in conference play, 1.1 more than Lord. But rebounding is clearly a huge factor in the NBA DPOY... since 1997, only one non-big has won the award (Ron Artest, who is far from a guard at 6'7", 260), and discounting him, the lowest rebounding average was 9.2 by Kevin Garnett in 2008 (in reduced minutes). In 2000, Alonzo Mourning averaged 9.5 RPG, so other than KG and 'Zo, everyone has had double-figure rebounding numbers.

I'd disagree. Rebounding isn't inherently a defensive activity. Defense is everything you do from the moment the opposition gets the ball in their hands until the shot goes up. Steals? yes. Contested shots? Sure (though, of course, they're hard to measure in real life, even moreso in HD). But you can't manufacture rebounds until the other team's possession is over - and assuming the other team misses. It may sound like semantics, but if you're talking about what should go into DPOY, I don't think it is.

I also think you're overstating how much NBA voters factor rebs into their DPOY votes. It's much more about blocks. Mutombo has 4 DPOY's - he's 20th in career rebs, but 2nd in career blocks. Ben Wallace has 4 DPOY's - he's 34s in rebs all-time, 15th in blocks. Same for Dwight - 69th in rebs but 42nd in blocks. Not saying the voters are right - they seem to forget guards play defense too - just pointing out that real life isn't helping your case either.

Posted by tianyi7886 on 5/1/2012 6:50:00 PM (view original):
I think you are confounding some variables. All of the players you mentioned also pretty much led the league in blks, or in KG's case, top 10 in blks and steals. Pretty much every big man that lead the league in blks is also up there in reb, while the opposite is not true (think Kevin Love).

And as I said before, the simengine values steals more than blks in dpoy, which is why you see alot of guards winning dpoy over centers. I'm just telling you how the engine evaluates dpoy, if you have a problem with it, sitemail CS/seble.

I agree with you because I know how the engine works... not disputing the value of steals over blocks in the current system.
I'm just talking from a real-life, human perspective.

Knowledge Base article #809...

Defensive Player of the Year is awarded based upon "steals, blocked shots and defensive rating."

Rebounding has nothing to do with it. 

Posted by bhansalid00 on 5/1/2012 6:54:00 PM (view original):

Posted by backboy13 on 5/1/2012 6:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tianyi7886 on 5/1/2012 5:49:00 PM (view original):
Why does rebounding matter so much in dpoy? It has generally gone to bigs in the NBA due to blks, not rebound. This engine simply decides to like stls more and tend to give it to guards more often (think ron artest) but once in a while, a big with good stls/game and decent blks gets it too.

As you said, it doesn't really affect your players so it doesn't matter.

For D1, this system is actually good. D1 EEs are already big biased. Making blks the predominant factor in dpoy will add more hardware to bigs, leading to even more bigs going early and fewer guards leaving. 

I'm gonna disagree with you here.
"Why does rebounding matter so much in dopy?" If the other team takes a shot and misses it, the only way you're getting off the defensive end is by grabbing that board... I think the vast majority of people here would agree that rebounding is extremely significant for the DPOY, if he's a big man, of course. I wouldn't be upset if a guard won it with low rebounding numbers, then it wouldn't matter; but if a center gets the award, seems to me that it should be based on rebounds and blocks, mainly.

You said that "It has generally gone to bigs in the NBA due to blks, not rebound." which would help Inman's case because he averaged 2.5 BPG in conference play, 1.1 more than Lord. But rebounding is clearly a huge factor in the NBA DPOY... since 1997, only one non-big has won the award (Ron Artest, who is far from a guard at 6'7", 260), and discounting him, the lowest rebounding average was 9.2 by Kevin Garnett in 2008 (in reduced minutes). In 2000, Alonzo Mourning averaged 9.5 RPG, so other than KG and 'Zo, everyone has had double-figure rebounding numbers.

I'd disagree. Rebounding isn't inherently a defensive activity. Defense is everything you do from the moment the opposition gets the ball in their hands until the shot goes up. Steals? yes. Contested shots? Sure (though, of course, they're hard to measure in real life, even moreso in HD). But you can't manufacture rebounds until the other team's possession is over - and assuming the other team misses. It may sound like semantics, but if you're talking about what should go into DPOY, I don't think it is.

I also think you're overstating how much NBA voters factor rebs into their DPOY votes. It's much more about blocks. Mutombo has 4 DPOY's - he's 20th in career rebs, but 2nd in career blocks. Ben Wallace has 4 DPOY's - he's 34s in rebs all-time, 15th in blocks. Same for Dwight - 69th in rebs but 42nd in blocks. Not saying the voters are right - they seem to forget guards play defense too - just pointing out that real life isn't helping your case either.

For the stats given after the DPOY on the link of conference awards, the order for bigs is PPG, RPG, BPG, SPG. Not sure if that has any significance, especially since PPG are included, but SPG does come last, and RPG comes before BPG.

Or from Knowledge Base #807...

Conference DPOY is based on "steals, blocks, FOULS and defensive rating."

Not sure how fouls might factor into the question posed in the OP as I haven't looked at player cards...

Posted by rednu on 5/1/2012 7:03:00 PM (view original):
Knowledge Base article #809...

Defensive Player of the Year is awarded based upon "steals, blocked shots and defensive rating."

Rebounding has nothing to do with it. 

And with that, I'm satisfied... Thank you!
While I disagree with the principle that rebounding isn't part of defense, for the HD awards it isn't, so I'll live with it.

Posted by rednu on 5/1/2012 7:07:00 PM (view original):
Or from Knowledge Base #807...

Conference DPOY is based on "steals, blocks, FOULS and defensive rating."

Not sure how fouls might factor into the question posed in the OP as I haven't looked at player cards...

Just saw the difference in Conference and National DPOY as well, wondering if they just forgot to include it in the national. Anyways, Inman averaged 1.9 FPG and Lord was at 1.2.

Yeah, seems kind of odd that fouls would factor in at the conference level, but not at the national level. I found it to be an interesting omission.