Posted by tbird9423 on 6/5/2012 7:46:00 PM (view original):
Hi all-- I actually thought about this a couple times when I was the team that was going to lose the CT game-- I don't see where it ever says it is illegal to throw a game, but I think making that agreement with another user is what makes that illegal.  If the "other team" is sim controlled, even more ambiguity there but I do see situations where it might make sense to throw a game for seeding purposes or playing time for younger players, especially if you know your team doesn't have a chance to win it all.  I think we would all agree this happens in rl from time to time.
  Dahs-- I think your quotation actually supports my thoughts but I can tell there is an unwritten rule against throwing games at all-  would be interested to hear WIS stance on this. 

WIS' stance wouldn't be interesting at all.  Their stance would be black and white:  throwing games is against the rules, period.  In fact, this very scenario came up about seven and a half years ago, when two D3 coaches made the mistake of broadcasting the fact that they were throwing a CT game in order for their conference to get an additional team into the NT.  Needless to say, it did NOT go over well.  Those two guys are still coaching, so I won't reveal their names (some of the older coaches here will probably remember the incident, if they want to put that info out there, that's up to them, but I'm not).  After reading some of your posts in other threads, I've gotta admit, I'm not surprised at all that you'd consider doing this or think that the TOS are unclear about whether this is okay to do or not.  Says a lot about your character and integrity.  Hey, you like trying to playing lawyer here, you're not one in real life, are you?

I'm with Dahs also, I don't agree that this happens in real life "from time to time".  Some players "do" attempt to throw games in real life, yes.  It's called point shaving.  It's also highly illegal.  Comes with possible prison time if found guilty.  Do coaches play their younger players when a season is deemed to be lost?  Sure they do, but they don't start using that strategy in the CT.  To try to play all of your best players all season and then turn around and play all your young guys in a CT Championship game and attempt to justify that by saying that you're getting them playing time is an insult to anyone's intelligence.  You don't have to come right out and say you're cheating for people to know you're cheating.  And you said that I was a douche?  Pot meet kettle. 

Posted by colonels19 on 6/6/2012 12:18:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dahsdebater on 6/5/2012 6:52:00 PM (view original):

Collusion includes any act that supports bad, deceitful or illegal behavior agreed upon by two or more users. Here are a few examples:

...

Intentionally throwing a game to ensure another team improves its chances for a post-season bid.

That seems pretty explicit to me...

If he's the only user, then there's wiggle room..if he's throwing a game to a sim ai it's not collusion according to that...sim ai isnt a user...had he never said anything he could have gotten away with this easily...some of u need to get off ur high horse

Posted by phillyboy108 on 6/5/2012 6:58:00 PM (view original):
Nevermind 100% not throwing game didnt know about this dahsdebater and dacj. I dont want to have my teams stripped. I m also probale going to get monitored by WIS too ..... great

Posted by yanks250125 on 6/5/2012 7:58:00 PM (view original):
i guess i'll get busted for restoring the eligibility of my redshirt guy because i knew i wasn't going to stay at that school in the following season?  Those fair play guidelines are stupid.  This is "WHAT IF" sports, not an organization that gets penalized for "cheating".  Remember we pay to play, not the other way around.  I several times went 0-162 in MLB sim leagues to see what would happen "if" a team tried to get perfect gamed every time.  I think its a travesty to a site like this to put limitations on teams that pay to play.  If i want to throw the CT game, I should be allowed to

Posted by tbird9423 on 6/5/2012 7:46:00 PM (view original):
Hi all-- I actually thought about this a couple times when I was the team that was going to lose the CT game-- I don't see where it ever says it is illegal to throw a game, but I think making that agreement with another user is what makes that illegal.  If the "other team" is sim controlled, even more ambiguity there but I do see situations where it might make sense to throw a game for seeding purposes or playing time for younger players, especially if you know your team doesn't have a chance to win it all.  I think we would all agree this happens in rl from time to time.
  Dahs-- I think your quotation actually supports my thoughts but I can tell there is an unwritten rule against throwing games at all-  would be interested to hear WIS stance on this. 

Posted by emy1013 on 6/6/2012 4:21:00 AM (view original):

Posted by phillyboy108 on 6/5/2012 6:58:00 PM (view original):
Nevermind 100% not throwing game didnt know about this dahsdebater and dacj. I dont want to have my teams stripped. I m also probale going to get monitored by WIS too ..... great

I can't believe you would even suggest it in the first place.  Did it not cross your mind that this was cheating, that something wasn't right with doing this?  You won't get your teams stripped from you, nor your ID's banned, don't worry about that.  But don't be surprised if anyone who reads this thread calls you out on any questionable moves you might make in the future.  Like it or not, the perception some people will now have of you is that you'll consider breaking the rules when it benefits you in some way.  Sorry, but that's just the reality of it.

Glad you came to your senses before you DID do something stupid though.  Now go beat that Sim team, get the automatic bid to the NT, and start gameplanning for your first round NT game.  Good luck and maybe you can pull an upset or three!

Posted by emy1013 on 6/6/2012 4:13:00 AM (view original):

Posted by colonels19 on 6/6/2012 12:18:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dahsdebater on 6/5/2012 6:52:00 PM (view original):

Collusion includes any act that supports bad, deceitful or illegal behavior agreed upon by two or more users. Here are a few examples:

...

Intentionally throwing a game to ensure another team improves its chances for a post-season bid.

That seems pretty explicit to me...

If he's the only user, then there's wiggle room..if he's throwing a game to a sim ai it's not collusion according to that...sim ai isnt a user...had he never said anything he could have gotten away with this easily...some of u need to get off ur high horse

Trevor (that's Colonels for you that weren't sure), I know you really don't care what anyone else thinks of you and in a way that's admirable.  Stand on your own.  Myself, I couldn't care less what anyone here thinks of me.  I've stated several times that I usually agree with most of what you say, but.......your constant need to portray yourself as the non-conformist, the rebel, the guy that won't toe the line, the outsider, really, really makes you look silly at times.  You know this is cheating, plain and simple, and for you to suggest that because it's a Sim team and not a human makes it okay is, frankly, laughable.  Plus, telling people to get off of their high horses because they are opposed to cheating is just a weak attempt at trying to get an argument started.  Have a nice day.

Posted by colonels19 on 6/6/2012 10:09:00 AM (view original):

Posted by emy1013 on 6/6/2012 4:13:00 AM (view original):

Posted by colonels19 on 6/6/2012 12:18:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dahsdebater on 6/5/2012 6:52:00 PM (view original):

Collusion includes any act that supports bad, deceitful or illegal behavior agreed upon by two or more users. Here are a few examples:

...

Intentionally throwing a game to ensure another team improves its chances for a post-season bid.

That seems pretty explicit to me...

If he's the only user, then there's wiggle room..if he's throwing a game to a sim ai it's not collusion according to that...sim ai isnt a user...had he never said anything he could have gotten away with this easily...some of u need to get off ur high horse

Trevor (that's Colonels for you that weren't sure), I know you really don't care what anyone else thinks of you and in a way that's admirable.  Stand on your own.  Myself, I couldn't care less what anyone here thinks of me.  I've stated several times that I usually agree with most of what you say, but.......your constant need to portray yourself as the non-conformist, the rebel, the guy that won't toe the line, the outsider, really, really makes you look silly at times.  You know this is cheating, plain and simple, and for you to suggest that because it's a Sim team and not a human makes it okay is, frankly, laughable.  Plus, telling people to get off of their high horses because they are opposed to cheating is just a weak attempt at trying to get an argument started.  Have a nice day.

I see what you're saying and fair enough...I just don't think it's that big of a deal.  It'd be easy to get away with, but why at any time would you want to lose on purpose, more WIS recruiting bucks or not?  I understand that they're trying to conform to real life with the CTs and auto bids going to the winner, but if you don't want something to occur in anything, make it impossible to happen.

As far as my high horse comment, I think guys are getting really up in arms about something that A. isn't an epidemic and B. isn't really a big deal...the way some of these guys talk, you'd think that the "cheater" colluded with seble to gain/earn a perfect season...I just think there needs to be a bit of perspective in situations like these, and on top of that, I think it'd be kinda/rather hard to throw a game in HD, even if you played your worst players...you'd probably need walkons to cement the L...just thinking out loud about the situation.

Posted by emy1013 on 6/6/2012 3:44:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tbird9423 on 6/5/2012 7:46:00 PM (view original):
Hi all-- I actually thought about this a couple times when I was the team that was going to lose the CT game-- I don't see where it ever says it is illegal to throw a game, but I think making that agreement with another user is what makes that illegal.  If the "other team" is sim controlled, even more ambiguity there but I do see situations where it might make sense to throw a game for seeding purposes or playing time for younger players, especially if you know your team doesn't have a chance to win it all.  I think we would all agree this happens in rl from time to time.
  Dahs-- I think your quotation actually supports my thoughts but I can tell there is an unwritten rule against throwing games at all-  would be interested to hear WIS stance on this. 

WIS' stance wouldn't be interesting at all.  Their stance would be black and white:  throwing games is against the rules, period.  In fact, this very scenario came up about seven and a half years ago, when two D3 coaches made the mistake of broadcasting the fact that they were throwing a CT game in order for their conference to get an additional team into the NT.  Needless to say, it did NOT go over well.  Those two guys are still coaching, so I won't reveal their names (some of the older coaches here will probably remember the incident, if they want to put that info out there, that's up to them, but I'm not).  After reading some of your posts in other threads, I've gotta admit, I'm not surprised at all that you'd consider doing this or think that the TOS are unclear about whether this is okay to do or not.  Says a lot about your character and integrity.  Hey, you like trying to playing lawyer here, you're not one in real life, are you?

I'm with Dahs also, I don't agree that this happens in real life "from time to time".  Some players "do" attempt to throw games in real life, yes.  It's called point shaving.  It's also highly illegal.  Comes with possible prison time if found guilty.  Do coaches play their younger players when a season is deemed to be lost?  Sure they do, but they don't start using that strategy in the CT.  To try to play all of your best players all season and then turn around and play all your young guys in a CT Championship game and attempt to justify that by saying that you're getting them playing time is an insult to anyone's intelligence.  You don't have to come right out and say you're cheating for people to know you're cheating.  And you said that I was a douche?  Pot meet kettle. 

For what it's worth, I think those who say it isn't a violation of the fair play guidelines are correct in a legal sense.  The first rule of construction in any written document is that if the langauge is claer and unambiguous, you don't look to the "intent," because the intent is presumably gleaned from the unambiguous written language.  These guidelines are unambiguous.  It requires collusion between "two or more users." 

My guess is that the creators of the game never considered the possibility that anyone would WANT to lose to a crappy sim.

Of course, whether it's "legal" isn't the issue, and strict interpretation doesn't have much place outside of the courts.  We can all use common sense and understand that it was WIS' intent to ban throwing games.

Posted by hughesjr on 6/6/2012 5:30:00 AM (view original):

Posted by yanks250125 on 6/5/2012 7:58:00 PM (view original):
i guess i'll get busted for restoring the eligibility of my redshirt guy because i knew i wasn't going to stay at that school in the following season?  Those fair play guidelines are stupid.  This is "WHAT IF" sports, not an organization that gets penalized for "cheating".  Remember we pay to play, not the other way around.  I several times went 0-162 in MLB sim leagues to see what would happen "if" a team tried to get perfect gamed every time.  I think its a travesty to a site like this to put limitations on teams that pay to play.  If i want to throw the CT game, I should be allowed to

Other people also pay to play ... they deserve that you not be a cheater.