How did that have nothing to do with your question?  He thinks you should have to win an NT game every four seasons, therefore he would believe the boosters should be complaining at the very least at this point in your tenure at NCSU.  I don't think he's entirely wrong, and it would seem that WIS probably feels that a NT win is necessary every 6 seasons or so if your boosters are now complaining.

And please inform me of how I am the "only one acting like a child."  You made this post and some posts in your CC fully expecting confirmation and everyone to come flocking saying how wrong this was and how screwed up the system is - when they didn't, you got annoyed and tried telling Joe he couldn't possibly understand because he hasn't been in your exact position (or at least he isn't right now, don't know his history, though he has coached just shy of twice as many seasons as you).  Call it like I see it.

""Anyway, so I have to vent and I was wondering what anyone else thought about this because in my opinion, the boosters should be begging me to take an extension""

Car, i think this is where you are off base.  I don't believe the boosters as they exist in this game look at the prior coaches success/failure when they decide how they feel about you.  While you may have done better than the coaches before you, you are in the ACC with the benefit of their conference prestige and the extra recruiting cash that goes along with it.  In 5 years, you have 0 winning seasons.  The 1 time you made the NT, you did it with a 14-13 record and a 4-12 conference record, both of which get you the NIT in real life. 

You're in no danger of getting fired, but in no way should anyone be begging you to extend your deal.  You've done a good job, but not an amazing one, and it's not unrealistic for the boosters to wonder if you can get the team over the hump.  Good luck going forward, I'm sure it ain't easy recruiting against Duke and Carolina every year.

Ryrun, please honestly tell me that the situation that has been presented to me is realistic and that WIS can't do anything to remedy this situation going into the future. I am tired of people that are content with WIS' laziness in terms of improving the game. That's why I'm irritated when Joe said what he did. If the difficulty of winning a NT game when you take over a bad team in a Big 6 conference was in line with reality, I wouldn't complain. 

I'm not afraid for my job, but I'm simply trying to point out a big flaw in the game right now. 

Also, Trenton, I looked at your coach history and understand that you did a great job at Princeton (and also probably weren't rewarded enough, prestige wise), but I think you need to gain an appreciation for how difficult it is to quickly rise out of the cellar at a Big 6 school and start consistently winning NT games. Can you at least see that because I wasn't trying to attack you as a coach; I'm just trying to meet you in the middle between my point of view and your's. 

And I understand your point of view because I was there a few seasons ago when I had just left George Mason (who I quickly rebuilt from D+ prestige to B- in four seasons). So I think my opinion is pretty unbiased now since I've seen what it's like to watch coaches blow their opportunities at a Big 6 school and not get fired for it, but I don't think I've made any mistakes at NCSU (besides scheduling a little too hard) which is why I think there needs to be change in the logic. 

Posted by milkamania on 6/16/2012 3:04:00 PM (view original):
""Anyway, so I have to vent and I was wondering what anyone else thought about this because in my opinion, the boosters should be begging me to take an extension""

Car, i think this is where you are off base.  I don't believe the boosters as they exist in this game look at the prior coaches success/failure when they decide how they feel about you.  While you may have done better than the coaches before you, you are in the ACC with the benefit of their conference prestige and the extra recruiting cash that goes along with it.  In 5 years, you have 0 winning seasons.  The 1 time you made the NT, you did it with a 14-13 record and a 4-12 conference record, both of which get you the NIT in real life. 

You're in no danger of getting fired, but in no way should anyone be begging you to extend your deal.  You've done a good job, but not an amazing one, and it's not unrealistic for the boosters to wonder if you can get the team over the hump.  Good luck going forward, I'm sure it ain't easy recruiting against Duke and Carolina every year.

Thanks milk, and in hindsight, I understand that they shouldn't be begging me for an extension, but they certainly shouldn't be complaining about the job I've done and I think they should look at the success before my time there. That's part of the point I'm trying to get across that logic needs to be improved. 

If you take a poll of the coaches as far as the job process goes, you're likely going to find out that most people here want to see the frequency in firings and turnover rate of the big six jobs increase, not to allow for more leniency.  So you might want to be thankful for their laziness, really - because I'd guess that if most coaches had their way, you'd be looking at a "win a NT game or you're gone" kind of scenario for next season.

If you want realism - how would a coach who has a 3-10 NT record (all of those wins coming at a two season stop w/ an inherited team at a lower division) expect to land a big six job?  Granted you had a season where you finished ranked at George Mason and seemed to do a fine job there aside from winning any tourney games.  But I'd say if you think it's realistic for a school like NC State to take a flyer on a coach like that, then it's realistic enough to expect the boosters to be anticipating, at the very least, some winning seasons, if not a tourney win or two, once you have all of your players in your system.

I don't hear the same things you hear then. Most people that I've heard complain want coaches who don't improve their teams to be fired. I feel that I've improved the team every season, but I can't get to the NT or win games once I get there because I get killed in conference play because it's ridiculously hard to compete because the current system makes it extremely easy for elite teams to stay at the top. Even if I do make the NT, I'll get stuck with a bad seed because unless I stack my classes (which WIS already limits with the 6 or less rule) and I'll lose regardless, which is what happened last season. I have to get lucky in recruiting and hope that they pass over any talent that they could easily have with their given prestige advantage. 

I would be willing to bet the equation for "job security" only factors in: wins, rankings, NT appearances, and NT wins.

If your season doesn't have enough of these, your job will be in jeopardy.  

I think you get 3 or 4 years without any pressure, after the grace period you have to produce.

I think your argument Mr. Crazy is that there should be other factors.   I don't think there should be.  

Posted by car_crazy_v2 on 6/16/2012 3:36:00 PM (view original):
I don't hear the same things you hear then. Most people that I've heard complain want coaches who don't improve their teams to be fired. I feel that I've improved the team every season, but I can't get to the NT or win games once I get there because I get killed in conference play because it's ridiculously hard to compete because the current system makes it extremely easy for elite teams to stay at the top. Even if I do make the NT, I'll get stuck with a bad seed because unless I stack my classes (which WIS already limits with the 6 or less rule) and I'll lose regardless, which is what happened last season. I have to get lucky in recruiting and hope that they pass over any talent that they could easily have with their given prestige advantage. 

I think you're selling short the ability of a B+ team with ACC recruiting money to get good players... You need to learn the tricks of the trade a little bit there, and figure out who to pick fights with and when. (I haven't even looked at your squad, so take this with a grain of salt.)

I think it's pretty normal for B+ big-6 schools to be able to recruit Sweet-16 worthy or better teams. You do need a little luck to win in the NT. And nobody has even threatened to fire you, so take the chances you are getting and make something of them.      

I have always felt those message are driven from your baseline.

car, you've been there five seasons. You made a leap from season 1 to season 2 (hard not to), and then have just been treading water since, mostly with losing seasons.

So yes, in your second season, I'm sure the boosters were singing your praises, and hoping and expecting you to lead the team to bigger and better things. But fast forward to the time heading into Season #6, and that hasn't happened. You're just treading water in mediocrity. So yeah, I can see the boosters starting to scratch their heads and going, "Maybe this is as far as he can take us ..."

And please don't gloss over the scheduling part, because you really dug your own grave there.

Boosters complaining means nothing. You're not going to get fired so this is much ado about nothing.

Also firings should be ramped up considerably. The fact that coaches in Big 6 conferences are keeping their jobs for getting 1st round PIT appearances is stupid.

Posted by dwoelflin07 on 6/16/2012 4:06:00 PM (view original):
I have always felt those message are driven from your baseline.

I think they are...and should be.

Right and I'm not afraid for my job, but I don't think that guys in my situation are the ones to be fired. I feel like it's the guys who have A prestige teams and begin to descend into mediocrity that deserve to be quickly let go. 

If coaches who were in my situation were fired, all you would accomplish would be scaring off people from taking on project jobs. 

Success is entirely relative so why should the lack of inherited talent be ignored. Until this season, I had 5 recruits who were recruited with a C+ prestige. Some of you are pointing out that I need to recruit better with a B+ prestige, but the fact is that I lost all 5 starters after last season and still almost made the NT, had I gotten one more win. I'm not sure if anyone dug deep enough to see that. 

And girt, I feel that this season was the only one where my scheduling screwed me. Do you agree? Because my RPI wouldn't have been good enough in seasons 51 and 50 had I scheduled easier. 

No one said you should be fired. You make it seem like you're about to be, at that's not the case whatsoever.

car_crazy, I've just been wanting to say this all thread - you do know that Rutgers is a Big East team, right?  'Cause TJ just took over there and is working on a rebuild right now...

Don't let that interrupt your rant, though.  Your extensive and ridiculously successful resume obviously speaks for itself...