Posted by seble on 6/27/2012 1:07:00 PM (view original):
professor - are there PGs that you see that you think should have gone early?

While I have long said that what is RL isn't always good for HD, in RL it has seemed top tier pgs don't tend to leave early (sg's a different story). So maybe the logic for a pg to leave early is a tad too strong (example look at this years pg class in the real NBA).

Posted by professor17 on 6/27/2012 1:09:00 PM (view original):
seble - Could you please also provide the number of SG that went EE in Naismith? Thank you.

There were 7 early entry SGs in Naismith. 

Since it appears no mid-majors lost any players in either EE selection process I'd say this is big step in the right direction.

Posted by grecianfox on 6/27/2012 1:19:00 PM (view original):
Boston College in Naismith went 4-23 (1-15 in conference) and lost two players to EE. Granted they were talented players but it is really going to be tough going forward.

That team success (or lack thereof) did deflate the draft stock of those two players.  BC is still an A- prestige though, so that offsets it some.

Posted by stinenavy on 6/27/2012 1:34:00 PM (view original):
Since it appears no mid-majors lost any players in either EE selection process I'd say this is big step in the right direction.

I don't think mid-major's should be excluded from losing EE's, but less so than the big boys absolutely.

Posted by professor17 on 6/27/2012 1:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by seble on 6/27/2012 1:07:00 PM (view original):
professor - are there PGs that you see that you think should have gone early?

At the risk of ******* off the coaches of these players (there's one of my own on the list as well), here's a not-all-inclusive list of guards in Phelan that I thought would have been serious candidates for going EE. If I have time I'll edit later to include player links: 

Alfredo Russo - Michigan St.    http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2125679
Chad Custard - Illinois  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2125597
Virgil Montijo - Virginia  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2126009
Teodoro Conti - Miami-FL  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2125671
Carroll Lynch - Utah  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2125985
Richard Shillings - Minnesota  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2125682
Robert Billy - Colorado  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2125450
Richard Higgins - Texas  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2153041
Benjamin McLeod - Duke  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2152466
Mark Townsend - Syracuse  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2153000
Jason Aikin - Colorado  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2152422
James Spalding - Duke  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2152464
Dave Silvester - California  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2152379
Jason Lindberg - Virginia  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2153098
Wayne Saunders - Stanford  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2152989
Robbie Lambert - Arizona  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2125334
Marc Rath - Washington  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2153111

Seriously, not a single one of these guys went EE? 

Custard, Billy, Higgins, McLeod,  Townsend,  and Spalding were in range to be drafted but opted to stay in school.  The rest were not projected to be drafted.

Posted by grecianfox on 6/27/2012 1:32:00 PM (view original):

Posted by seble on 6/27/2012 1:07:00 PM (view original):
professor - are there PGs that you see that you think should have gone early?

I have not done a comprehensive search in Phelan but I have a few guys that I think probably should have gone early if we are going straight on talent.

I'll start with my team, Syracuse. I lost one SF, William Cain (Sophomore). He was my third most talented SF behind Kent (927 OVR) and Graham (897 OVR).

Looking at point guards, Chad Custard at Illinois (Jr)(ovr 809, ATH 100, SPD 100, DE 96, PER 99, BH 95, PAS 99, really stands out.

Both Kent and Graham projected higher, but you got lucky and they both decided to stay.

Posted by seble on 6/27/2012 1:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by professor17 on 6/27/2012 1:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by seble on 6/27/2012 1:07:00 PM (view original):
professor - are there PGs that you see that you think should have gone early?

At the risk of ******* off the coaches of these players (there's one of my own on the list as well), here's a not-all-inclusive list of guards in Phelan that I thought would have been serious candidates for going EE. If I have time I'll edit later to include player links: 

Alfredo Russo - Michigan St.    http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2125679
Chad Custard - Illinois  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2125597
Virgil Montijo - Virginia  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2126009
Teodoro Conti - Miami-FL  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2125671
Carroll Lynch - Utah  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2125985
Richard Shillings - Minnesota  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2125682
Robert Billy - Colorado  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2125450
Richard Higgins - Texas  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2153041
Benjamin McLeod - Duke  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2152466
Mark Townsend - Syracuse  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2153000
Jason Aikin - Colorado  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2152422
James Spalding - Duke  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2152464
Dave Silvester - California  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2152379
Jason Lindberg - Virginia  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2153098
Wayne Saunders - Stanford  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2152989
Robbie Lambert - Arizona  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2125334
Marc Rath - Washington  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2153111

Seriously, not a single one of these guys went EE? 

Custard, Billy, Higgins, McLeod,  Townsend,  and Spalding were in range to be drafted but opted to stay in school.  The rest were not projected to be drafted.

Then I guess I would argue that if guys like: 

Teodoro Conti (http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2125671),
Virgil Montijo (http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2126009)
and Dave Silvester (http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2152379)

are not even in the range to be drafted, that the EE/draft logic is still significantly undervaluing guards. Take a look at those guys. Does anyone really think those players shouldn't even get drafted? 

what are the odds of a player staying here? that is a LOT of guys who were in range to be drafted but decided to stay. 

it seems strange to me that you would have so few early entry guards. some senior guards graduated, but not so many that there was no room for these other younger guards. it would be interesting to see the stats of:
total drafted players, by position
total early entries, by position

but the data so far around these few threads makes it look like there are still too few guards. 

i am still not clear - did tark EEs run under the new changes or not? looked like you were saying yes, but players declared before the 26th, so im guessing no, but want to be sure.

Posted by zhawks on 6/27/2012 1:40:00 PM (view original):

Posted by stinenavy on 6/27/2012 1:34:00 PM (view original):
Since it appears no mid-majors lost any players in either EE selection process I'd say this is big step in the right direction.

I don't think mid-major's should be excluded from losing EE's, but less so than the big boys absolutely.

I don't disagree. From what I've seen, the mid-major players that were going EE were usually around 100-150 rating points below some Big 6 school's player that stayed. That was a big issue with the process.

In Phelan, 16 guys could have been drafted, but decided to stay.  There were 19 in Naismith.

Posted by gillispie1 on 6/27/2012 1:50:00 PM (view original):
what are the odds of a player staying here? that is a LOT of guys who were in range to be drafted but decided to stay. 

it seems strange to me that you would have so few early entry guards. some senior guards graduated, but not so many that there was no room for these other younger guards. it would be interesting to see the stats of:
total drafted players, by position
total early entries, by position

but the data so far around these few threads makes it look like there are still too few guards. 

i am still not clear - did tark EEs run under the new changes or not? looked like you were saying yes, but players declared before the 26th, so im guessing no, but want to be sure.

Tark used the old logic.

Posted by gillispie1 on 6/27/2012 1:50:00 PM (view original):
what are the odds of a player staying here? that is a LOT of guys who were in range to be drafted but decided to stay. 

it seems strange to me that you would have so few early entry guards. some senior guards graduated, but not so many that there was no room for these other younger guards. it would be interesting to see the stats of:
total drafted players, by position
total early entries, by position

but the data so far around these few threads makes it look like there are still too few guards. 

i am still not clear - did tark EEs run under the new changes or not? looked like you were saying yes, but players declared before the 26th, so im guessing no, but want to be sure.

Phelan's NT championship game ran last night on the 26th with the new logic being implemented that morning.  The EE process run immediately after the NT championship game last evening so I can only assume it was using the new EE logic as Seble confirmed already. 

Tark however already played their NT championship game prior to the morning of the 26th so their EE process ran under the old system (as Seble confirmed in the Tark Early Exit thread).

Posted by professor17 on 6/27/2012 1:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by seble on 6/27/2012 1:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by professor17 on 6/27/2012 1:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by seble on 6/27/2012 1:07:00 PM (view original):
professor - are there PGs that you see that you think should have gone early?

At the risk of ******* off the coaches of these players (there's one of my own on the list as well), here's a not-all-inclusive list of guards in Phelan that I thought would have been serious candidates for going EE. If I have time I'll edit later to include player links: 

Alfredo Russo - Michigan St.    http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2125679
Chad Custard - Illinois  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2125597
Virgil Montijo - Virginia  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2126009
Teodoro Conti - Miami-FL  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2125671
Carroll Lynch - Utah  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2125985
Richard Shillings - Minnesota  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2125682
Robert Billy - Colorado  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2125450
Richard Higgins - Texas  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2153041
Benjamin McLeod - Duke  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2152466
Mark Townsend - Syracuse  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2153000
Jason Aikin - Colorado  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2152422
James Spalding - Duke  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2152464
Dave Silvester - California  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2152379
Jason Lindberg - Virginia  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2153098
Wayne Saunders - Stanford  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2152989
Robbie Lambert - Arizona  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2125334
Marc Rath - Washington  http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2153111

Seriously, not a single one of these guys went EE? 

Custard, Billy, Higgins, McLeod,  Townsend,  and Spalding were in range to be drafted but opted to stay in school.  The rest were not projected to be drafted.

Then I guess I would argue that if guys like: 

Teodoro Conti (http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2125671),
Virgil Montijo (http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2126009)
and Dave Silvester (http://www.wisjournal.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=2152379)

are not even in the range to be drafted, that the EE/draft logic is still significantly undervaluing guards. Take a look at those guys. Does anyone really think those players shouldn't even get drafted? 

Conti has only 74 passing, a key rating for PG. Montijo is 76 in BH and 84 in Passing, not exactly elite.  Silvester is good, but I'm betting all the drafted players are better. 

So I'm guessing my soph PF was unlucky then?  Since he was a sophmore I am assuming he'll be drafted in the higher portion of the 1st round then?  It would REALLY suck if he was picked in the second round as a sophmore and I were to lose a stud player and not even get a prestige bump to boot.

It seems to me that just getting to the NT put me on the same playing field as all those elite programs above me which all I'm trying to do is to reach an even playing field to recruit the same players.  As it is, I'm at a huge disadvantage to those that are already have a higher prestige AND making deep tourney runs than I can accomplish trying to rebuild.